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To: Cyber Liberty

> If the universe tends to become disorderly on its own (entropy), then how can one explain evolution

Easily. The universe *as* *a* *whole*, or any CLOSED SYSTEM, tends towards disorder. However, the Earth IS NOT a closed system. HAd the Sun simply disappeared from the sky of Earth 4 billion years ago, then evolution would have ground to a halt. But the sun didn't disappear; it remains an external power source. So on the very small scale of the surface of the Earth, energy is available to produce ordered systems. But when compared to the Earth-Sun system *as* *a* *whole,* it's been running down for billions of years.


15 posted on 05/04/2005 11:08:22 AM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: orionblamblam

But aren't you then assuming there is no other life in the universe?


16 posted on 05/04/2005 11:09:25 AM PDT by linear (You men can't fight in here - this is the War Room!)
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To: orionblamblam

Ther you go. I knew somebody would have an answer. I guess order/dosorder can be swapped around between open systems like energy.


21 posted on 05/04/2005 11:18:41 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (© 2005, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
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To: orionblamblam

Would you therefore think that there is no evolution on
let's say Titan? There is almost no energy from sunlight
there.

The "fecundity principle"...we're here because we're here.
"random mutation"- we can't figure out rhyme or reason,
it must be random
"gene frequency" - most of what's here has the most of
the "gene frequency- because it's here!(see fecundity
principle)
"Closed system"-only applies to earth, If one considers
the whole universe as a closed system well that's not
fair, cuz the closed system should tend to higher
entropy. Oh then, from what order or what principle
started the Universe?...well, it was paired virtural
anti-particle/particle pairs.coming into and going
out of existence (whatever "existence" means)
...which have always been.
Don't question me. I know. I was there. I have a Ph.D.


38 posted on 05/04/2005 12:02:26 PM PDT by Getready ((...Fear not ...))
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To: orionblamblam

While I would agree with your assertion that had the sun disappeared 4 billion years ago, evolution would have ground to a halt, from a purely thermodynamic standpoint this is not necessarily true. If there were some other entropy-increasing process on earth that process could theoretically be used to compensate for whatever decrease in entropy is entailed by evolution.

The point is that even in an isolated system, it is possible for one part of the system to undergo an entropy decrease as long as a compensating increase in entropy occurs somewhere else in the system. It is the TOTAL entropy of an isolated system that must increase, not the local entropy at any given point in the system.


69 posted on 05/05/2005 6:09:19 AM PDT by stremba
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To: orionblamblam; Cyber Liberty
However, the Earth IS NOT a closed system.

Neither is Venus and Venus has more solar energy available for organization.

255 posted on 05/25/2005 2:35:07 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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