College does not prepare for real life

Bowling Green News ^ | 5/2/05 | Amanda Hooper

[Nam Vet]

You and I are thinking the same way.

Nam Vet

[GSlob]

“Concerning the advancement of learning, I do subscribe to the opinion… that, for grammar schools, there are already too many… the great number of schools which are in your Highness’s realm doth cause a want, and likewise an overthrow [surfeit] – both of them inconvenient and one of them dangerous; for by means thereof they find want in the country and towns, both of servants for husbandry and of apprentices for trade; and on the other side there being more Scholars bred than the State can prefer and employ… it must needs fall out that many persons will be bred unfit for other vocations and unprofitable for that in which they were bred up, which will fill the realm full of indigent, idle and wanton people…” Francis Bacon, 1611 letter to James I.

[Modernman]

Could be a lot of things, but I don't see a causal relationship, from what I've seen of college.

So what accounts for the fact that someone with a college degree, on average, makes about $1 million more (or something like that) over a lifetime than someone who only has a high school degree?

[lemura]

Sure it does - real life is all about who you know, not what you know. Spending $100K+ on a top flight school with national name brand recognition is better than money in the bank.

I knew a Harvard lib arts guy in the late 80s who knew nothing about computers but was hired anyway as a marketing rep by MS. Since MS likes Harvard grads, he got some of the last open options and a few years later he was a millionaire.

[Modernman]

Spending $100K+ on a top flight school with national name brand recognition is better than money in the bank.

Think of it as an investment. A degree from an Ivy League university gets your resume to the top of the pile, in most cases.

Some law firms won't even look at resumes unless the applicant has a JD from one of the "right" schools.

[jec41]

You get what you expect from your children. The Kinkaid School in Houston Texas is a private school with moderate tuition. Average SAT is 1250 or better. All students graduate and 100% attend collage and graduate. It should be a model for the educational system. They have been doing this since the sixties. I was only able to attend one year in the sixties but learned more there than all the other years of grade and high school put together. Take the time to goggle The Kinkaid School.

[CompSciGuy]

Four years in the military after high school will not only help pay for college, it will grow a kid up enough to be serious about it when he/she gets there.

On top of that it will harden the young man or woman, thereby ending what I call "the scared undergrad" syndrome. As a teaching assistant I saw this all of the time. Professors would bully their undergrads into accepting their orthodoxy, I experienced it myself as an undergrad. The nontraditional students (i.e. students 23+, most of whom were ex-military or workforce retraining types) tended to make these bullies back down, while the fresh outta high school types just took it. More students standing up to bully professors (especially in English and in History) would curb if not eliminate the liberal scare tactics on campus.

Cheers,

CSG

[cornelis]

And by time you get it right, you're dead.

Our life is too short.

[sarasota]

One also acquires a certain "humility" in having to deal with professors who may not jibe with one's agenda. Good for teaching socialization skills which eventually translate into the workplace team building.

[sarasota]

The spelling is Kincaid School.

[baystaterebel]

"So what accounts for the fact that someone with a college degree, on average, makes about $1 million more (or something like that) over a lifetime than someone who only has a high school degree?"

The fact that many of the higher paying jobs have a degree of some sort as a requirement for entry. Now, is that degree really necessary? That is the question. I work within a company that require college degrees for various jobs that in reality would be better suited for people who have been in the field working instead of sitting in a classroom for four years.

As has been mentioned above, other then specialized sciences and a few others, what real skills are learned in college that can not be learned in life? Please don't tell me "learning to think". I have met as many educated idiots as I have uneducated.

[cornelis]

The military is set up in this way with simulations to teach physical and other skills which eventually should translate into workplace team building. Hard situations harden one's skills. Iron sharpens iron etc.

However, professors and senators are notoriously poor examples to play the role of facilitator. The military is better, because the situational arrangement has a place where excellence is encouraged. Too many sectors of our society no longer have this in place. Putting up with sh!t is no guarantee that anyone has taken you by the hand well enough toward wisdom. In other words, you'll learn to get along with no place to go.

[Modernman]

The fact that many of the higher paying jobs have a degree of some sort as a requirement for entry.

That's my point. Employers, who are the best judge of what type of education is required for a certain job opening, have decided that most high-paying jobs require a college degree.

Are they right? Who knows? I'm just pointing out the reality that, generally speaking, a Bachelors degree gives a person higher lifetime earning potential than a high school degree.

[baystaterebel]

"One also acquires a certain "humility" in having to deal with professors who may not jibe with one's agenda. Good for teaching socialization skills which eventually translate into the workplace team building."

That same humility and socialization skills along with team building can be learned doing a job that requires several people to get it done with a boss in charge.

Actually, it is better learned this way because it is being directly taught and put into practice in real life at real time. In class if you don't learn these skills you get a "F". In life if you don't learn these skills you get "F"ired.

[dware]

5. Run for public office. I learned more in 8-9 months as a candidate than I did in 4 years of college.

[sarasota]

Good point. But in the workplace, with one boss, do you think a person is limited in mentoring? At colleges and universities one experiences many mentors and has to be more flexible and accommodating. Having to listen to and learn from various professors ultimately helps during interviews; it's perhaps easier to determine which type of individual would make a suitable employer. Just speculating here.

[Professional Engineer]

She makes more on her first job than I do.

I've had the same experience from the other side.

[baystaterebel]

I see your point. And I believe it is an advantage. But consider those working in a large corporation. I have contact with bosses, and managers, and executives on a daily basis. Each requires a different tact when engaging them. Each has limits on what he directly knows and what he or she can get done. Some of them are very good at their jobs others are not. Learning to directly deal with these people cant be taught in a class room.

I think my point is that the same skills need to be learned to survive. But once again while one is learning them in a classroom another is learning them and applying them in real life.

[sarasota]

The test of education is indeed application in the workplace. Maybe the best things I learned was to listen; and to realize that it takes people more than one pass at understanding to "get it". The most intriguing thing for me is watching the best executives "play poker". I've learned a lot from them.