Can't Wal-Mart, a Retail Behemoth, Pay More?

The New York Times ^ | May 4, 2005 | Steven Greenhouse

[jurroppi1]

Wow! 1,108.00/month for rent? That's pretty extreme for rent anywhere near me (I live near Minneapolis, MN). That would be 19k/12 * .7 (for taxes) = 1,108.00/month. I find it hard to believe there aren't cheaper places to live near you. Besides that, people can get roommates, and split that cost. I lived on much less than that in the past, and I was paying 750 a month in a fairly high profile suburb... Granted - 375 bucks a month after rent isn't much to live on, but with a roomie that would actually be more like 750 a month after rent - plenty to cover insurance, utilities, and pay for other needs. Plus, you'd pretty much get all your taxes back at the end of the year, or could claim several exemptions and be safe...

[durasell]

No, you misread -- that was $19,000 -- that's nineteen thousand a month -- for rent.

[Half Vast Conspiracy]

It's time for Freepers to decide who they want to associate with. Do you want to be with the "women's advocates and labor leaders?"

[newsgatherer]

Hey, is this a real qoute?: "The Marines keep coming. We are shooting, but the Marines won't stop !" (Fallujah Terrorists)

If so, do you remember from where? I would like to use it.

Thanks,
Jake

[ARCADIA]

What a whining socialist.

Just a political realist. But, it does crack me up that most here find it perfectly acceptable to combine multiple stores/plants into enormous structures to subvert the free market, but wet their pants at the first mention of the word labor union. Clearly, one is no more anti-market then the other. This is just the natural process of checks and balances that occurs in a free society. This is how labor forces the market to develop new opportunities. It should be expected when you are talking about the largest employer in the land.

I think we have taken this cheap labor strategy about as far as it can go. Perhaps it is time to focus on automation, on service quality, and on competitive innovation. Some of you may get a kick out of those endless telephone menus, but, I am willing to pay a little more to return to a live and knowledgeable voice at the other end of the call. If that means that means that the customer service guy can afford a car once in a while, then so be it; GM can use the help.

[Conservative Infidel]

I'm curious about what the liberals' darling, Target, pays. I doubt that it's any more, or if it is, their benefits probably aren't as good. This whole attack on WalMart is politically motivated, because the Walton family contributes to the GOP, whereas the Daytons (who owns Target) are huge contributors to the Dems.

Perhaps now they are big Rep contributers. But, back in the clinton era, they were BIG Dem contributers. In fact, Hillery used to have a seat on the Wally World board of directors. I suspect that they just throw their big bucks at the party currently in power. That would make good business sense. But you are right, what does Target's compensation package look like? I would be willing to bet it is very similar to Walmart's.

[cyborg]

Hourly wage positions at Walmart should not be long term. If one is going to continue to work for Walmart, then seek something in management. Perhaps he had some personal problems in life as I have. This man should be ASHAMED of his whining about his stupid truck. Thank goodness I don't whine.

[banjo joe]

A lot depends on where you are.

True. I live near a one-horse town in the south. Not many real employment opportunities, so many of us work in one of the large towns an hour south or north.

Amazing how the prices of services and real estate now are the same as in the big towns.

[mtbrandon49]

I worked high voltage feeder lines for 2 years. Went in the door with no experience at $11.00 an hour. When I left I was making $25.00 an hour working 60 hours per week. Not the safest job in the world but the pay is hard to beat.

[durasell]

Shocking!

(had to be said)

[cyborg]

I wonder how the rent stabilization talks are going. Probably about as good as the ME peace talks ;-)

[Abby4116]

Does anyone know what Macy's, Sears, Target, KMart pay their associates? Retail never did pay good wages but they never seemed to have a problem finding people willing to work for what they paid.

[durasell]

They'll never eliminate rent stabilization in one piece of legislation. It'll be phased out slowly, mostly when real estate is in a down market.

[durasell]

If you're working high end retail you can do six figures easily. But you need skills for that.

[jurroppi1]

If people earning wages that can't possibly support the lifestyle of living in a home that costs 19k a month try to assimilate to that lifestyle regardless, then they are just plain stupid! 19k a month would buy about a 20,000 square foot or bigger house in many areas (I pay 600 a month for 1280 square feet). 19k a month is expansive mansion - palace type dwelling costs - I just simply refuse to believe that anything but a Bill Gates type of dwelling is this expensive anywhere but in some exotic locale... No way a house costs that much for the average person!

[reformedliberal]

full-time workers average $9.68 an hour, and with many of them working 35 hours a week, their annual pay comes to around $17,600. That is below the $19,157 poverty line for a family of four, but above the $15,219 line for a family of three

---

But this is a single guy. I see nothing in the article about any kids.

Also, define "many". I know students who work at Walmart 20 hrs/wk and people on disability who also are limited to 20 hrs/wk.

The stories I hear from my local Walmart, which does not pay this much for the regular floor workers or cashiers, are of supervisors begging people to take more hours.

In my area, welders make $12/hr working for someone else. Assembly line workers make $9-$10 or so. Those that are married have 2 wage earners. Still, I see them driving at least one fully loaded full-sized truck, and they live in fairly nice homes. Many do not have children, but do have RVs, snowmobiles or motor boats and they drive them regularly, even with $2+ gallon for gas.

Walmart's insurance is essentially catastrophic w/hospitalization and ER coverage. Medicaid is better. Anyone with children in my state, who can meet the income limit, can get state medicaid, which pays for doctor visits, some vision and some dental care. Assets are not included, so we are supporting the medical benefits of people with hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank, a paid-for house, sometimes with land, just because they keep their income below the limit and have children. There are older people who sell the farm, bank the quarter-million proceeds and then get every entitlement available based on "low income".People routinely transfer their assets to their children prior to retirement and then pray nothing catastrophic happens for the the 3-year time limit before they retire so that when they need a nursing home, it will be paid for by the government programs.

None of these benefits are available to those without children, under 65, who are not disabled, even if their AGI is below the "poverty line".

I believe food stamps work similarly. In my area, the welfare industry advertises for food stamp recipients.

Which brings me to the question of AGI vs income. Anyone who itemizes deductions can lower their *income* below what they actually earn. This isn't always a clear-cut profit and loss situation, either, but rather manipulation of the tax code to lower ones' obligation.

The article implies that Bentonville, AK is not a $9-$12/hr economy. What is the average cost of living there? How many employees do the sole proprietorships ("put out of business by Walmart" tm) hire? How many small businesses pay more than Walmart and how many pay minimum wage for 20 hrs or less/week?

As usual, things are not what they seem.

[ARCADIA]

Retail never did pay good wages

They use to pay professional level wages back during the 50 and 60s. Back then, your appliance salesman was expected to be knowledgeable enough to assists his customers, and retail sales people were expected to study product manuals and other publications to stay current. The paradigm that the average retail sales clerk should be just a notch above a trained chimp has not always been the case. It started going that way when store hours were first extended during the 1970s.

[Conservative Infidel]

I was reading 75% of Walmart's management are people who started as associates. Pretty good opportunity for someone who doesn't have an education.

I can testify to this fact! My S-I-L was a high school drop out (don't ask). Walmart hired him, six years ago. Walmart encouraged him to get his GED. Walmart encouraged him to apply for better positions. Walmart encouraged him to apply for the manager training program. He is currently an assistant store manager, and interviewed last week for a store manager position--which he will probably get. Pretty damn good for a high school drop out who has been with the company for just 6 years!!

[jurroppi1]

http://queens.about.com/cs/realestate/a/real_july03_3.htm

Shows average rental in NY (Bayside, Queens) - I doubt people working at a local wal-mart could reasonably aspire to live there, but they need to acquire the skills and the career needed to support that lifestyle if that's what the really desire...

Any reasonable person with half a brain would understand and accept that without reservation!

[Abby4116]

I worked for one of the better department stores during the 60s. Started at $1.10 per hour plus 1% commission. (Minimum wage at that time was $1.25 an hour.) I took a job in the store manager's office and when I left I was making about $47 a week take home pay for a 37.5 hour week.

Appliances, shoes, men's suits and furniture all paid commission after they went to an hourly wage, but the average sales associate was still making low wages.