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To: Nathan Zachary
You can choose to believe it happened as God said, or not.

Well, how does the Bible say God created the species?

My problem is that it doesn't say much at all. A couple of sentences that can, and has, been interpreted many different ways. Not nearly enough detail to really commit your life to.

I'll repeat. God created the universe, and He gave us the Bible. There can be no contradiction between the two.

If you want to understand God's creation, then you have to study it, and the best method to do so is science. That has been done, and all evidence (your post notwithstanding) points to evolution.

I'm sorry, your claims that "creationism has more science to support it" is woefully inaccurate. You really have no idea.

50 posted on 05/02/2005 5:17:32 PM PDT by narby
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To: narby

(Sigh) Again, you have to realize that the bible isn't about how he created things, it's about YOU.
As far as how he created things, there is enough information there to give you a few clues where Christs new kingdom is, it tells us in Genisis. You restrict God to your concept of time, and that's a mistake.
I suppose you think God created us in his image, therefore God looks like us? Those few words in Genisis tell you a lot of things, and there isn't a great discrepancy or many different interpretations either. The churches have (for the most part) a consensus on what everything means. It appears that your bible studies haven't gone very deep.


54 posted on 05/02/2005 5:38:22 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: narby

I'll just stop here and suggest to you that these questions, and answers to them have been written about in much greater detail than I could ever express to you. You should take the time and look up these wrtings by the fathers of the church, written since the beginning of the church (st. peters') Your questions and thoughts have all been asked before.
One of my favorite authors and fathers of the church is St. Augustine, most, if not all his works are available here:

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/

As are many others. Take the time and enjoy some of them.


56 posted on 05/02/2005 5:44:56 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: narby

Narby,

I take it from your posts that you are a Christian believer. I came to Christianity, give or take, 30 years ago - believing evolution and believing that Christ was the perfect Lamb, my Savior. I am glad that you share that belief.

However, over time I have also come to realize that ideas have consequences, and evolutionism as a set of ideas has had some horrendous ones. If you believe that we came through a series of fortunate (incredible) coincidences (even if God "started the clock") to what we are today, our activities and choices are of neutral value.

As for the scientific evidence, both evolutionists and creationists deal with the same information/evidence. The interpretation of the evidence - the bias (faith) used in looking at the information is what differs.

There is a location in Yellowstone called Specimen Ridge. It has many geological layers of petrified trees that were preserved in upright positions within the rock. It was believed that these trees came to be within the ridge over millions of years.

After Mt. St. Helens blew, thousands of dead trees ended up floating on Spirit Lake. As they floated, the root systems were the first part to get waterlogged. The trees would begin floating upright, and as they became more waterlogged, started floating toward the bottom of the lake. Eventually they would become imbedded in the lake bottom. So at any given time, there would be trees floating upright at various water levels in the lake and imbedded in the debris/soil at the bottom.

Once this phenomenon was observed, some geologists went back to Specimen Ridge and did core samples of the "millions of years" of trees. Based on the ring patterns, the trees in all the layers died at approximately the same time.

Did Specimen Ridge form over millions of years, or in a relatively short catastrophic event? The bias (faith) used in the original analysis was that it took millions of years - and it was wrong.

Jesus affirmed Old Testament events as historic truth. God created each one of us for a purpose, and the choice, as in Adam's time, is ours. When that purpose and His truth is disregarded, mankind loses its way very quickly - leading to moral relativism, and a utilitarian, egocentric view of human life and others.

One of the things that has interested me over the last few years is how much evolutionism, feminism, animal rights, anti-war, homosexuality, liberalism have become default religions of sorts - each a cause celebre worth the laying down of your life.

Totalitarian societies almost without fail try to eliminate the idea of "natural rights" given by God, the Creator at man's beginning. These rights are not granted by the whim of the government power du jour. That is why the mostly non-violent revolutions in such places as Poland were so powerful. And evolutionism, in denying special creation, also denies the special position (and reponsibilities) of man in creation.

It might be useful to point out the numerous, deliberate scientific frauds perpetrated in support of evolutionism, but I'm guessing you may have already heard or read of many of them.

I believe that well meaning Christian believers can differ on this issue. However, if mankind is the product of an evolutionary process, there can be no such thing as sin (because we never departed from the Creator's original intent and design). If sin does not exist, we do not need a savior.

Like evolutionism, creationism has had incorrect theories on some topics over time, later disproved by the creationists themselves. However, there are some excellent scientists who are creationists, and many historical and current scientific discoveries have been made by folks who believed in Biblical Creation.

Would be happy to provide you further info if you are interested.

Blessings,


66 posted on 05/02/2005 6:25:43 PM PDT by Wicket (God bless and protect our troops and God bless America)
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To: narby
Well, how does the Bible say God created the species?

Now this is a tough one. Not. Genesis 1:21: "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth..." Every. And created. So he created every living creature. Unless you want to redefine creature, this leaves no room for evolution. Verse 25: "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth [bugs] after his kind..." Kind refer to the genus.

My problem is that it doesn't say much at all. A couple of sentences that can, and has, been interpreted many different ways. Not nearly enough detail to really commit your life to.

Well, the First Amendment has "been interpreted many different ways." However, it's very clear. The bible is even clearer.

I'll repeat. God created the universe, and He gave us the Bible. There can be no contradiction between the two.

That's true. And the laws of nature make it impossible for a species to attain new programmed DNA.

If you want to understand God's creation, then you have to study it, and the best method to do so is science. That has been done, and all evidence (your post notwithstanding) points to evolution.

Cruise answersingenesis.org for a while please. Or if you want pure science, without any of that meaningless scripture, http://evolution-facts.org/Cruncher%20TOC.htm.

I'm sorry, your claims that "creationism has more science to support it" is woefully inaccurate. You really have no idea.

Except for the fact that it is quite possible I have read over 100 books on the subject, and a dozen from the evolutionist side. Darwin's Black Box is one of the most convincing. Any of Jonathan Sarfati's work is great too. But as I said before, answersingenesis.org is the best, most comprehensive resource for scientific debunking of evolution.
73 posted on 05/03/2005 9:35:54 AM PDT by TeenagedConservative
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