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Where's Ratko?
The American Spectator ^ | April 29th, 2005 | By Christopher Orlet

Posted on 04/30/2005 5:31:40 AM PDT by mark502inf

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To: FormerLib
a rag tag band of Muslim soldiers who often positioned themselves near the Dutch for protection.

We'll ignore the 6,000 Serb villagers butchered in the hills that ring Srebrenica. The reason this scum was near the Dutch is so the Serbs wouldn't touch them after their raids.

21 posted on 04/30/2005 10:23:49 AM PDT by jb6 (Truth == Christ)
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To: FormerLib

An International commission on the Balkans had this to say about Paddy Ashdown recently:

"The commission asserts that democracy has been stifled in Bosnia "by the coercive authority" of Paddy Ashdown, the EU's high representative."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1392646/posts


22 posted on 04/30/2005 11:29:51 AM PDT by Jane_N (Truth, like beauty....is in the eyes of the beholder! And please DON'T feed the trolls!)
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To: Jane_N
Jane, I agree with the International Commission on the Balkans that the UN leadership in both Bosnia and Kosovo has assumed too much power to the detriment of the development of democracy.

However, that has little to do with the Bosnian Serb Commission on Srebrenica which was appointed by the Bosnian Serb government and found that the Srebrenica killings were mass murders of non-Serbs committed by Serbs.

23 posted on 04/30/2005 4:07:57 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: SQUID
The truth on Srebrenica is easy to find, not to say that you are interested in the truth. But here it is anyways, from Condi Rice's report on Human Rights released last week:

The RS government established an independent Srebrenica Commission in order to comply with March 2003 Human Rights Chamber decision which ordered the RS Government to inform families of the fate of their missing relatives from the Srebrenica massacre and to investigate thoroughly the events giving rise to the massacre and report on the results of the investigation. The Commission issued an interim report in June, in which RS authorities took responsibility for the massacre for the first time. On November 15, the Commission released the final portion of its report. The Commission found that there were 7,806 confirmed victims. A classified annex of documents implicating an unknown number of war crimes suspects was turned over to the RS authorities for investigation. Former RS Prime Minister Mikerevic and RS President Cavic acknowledged publicly for the first time that large-scale war crimes took place in Srebrenica and apologized to the relatives of the victims on behalf of the RS government.

24 posted on 04/30/2005 4:51:21 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: getoffmylawn

save


25 posted on 04/30/2005 6:24:20 PM PDT by getoffmylawn (Don't *bleep* with Ozzie Guillen. Go White Sox! Give 'em hell, Ozzie!)
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To: mark502inf
I doubt the RS has the institutional capacity to come clean over Srebrenica - too many of those involved in the massacre are still employed by the RS Government for it to effectively police itself over the matter.

It seems to me that the RS is near the end of it's "death of a thousand cuts" as the OHR strips it of it's remaining powers.

26 posted on 05/01/2005 10:02:42 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: mark502inf

When the author compared Mladich to the likes of Himmler is where I stopped reading. It's sad that pretty much anyone can get their rant published these days.


27 posted on 05/01/2005 10:47:55 AM PDT by Banat ("You've got two empty 'alves of coconut, and you're banging 'em together!")
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To: mark502inf

Following the publication of a 42-page report by the Srebrenica Commission of the Bosnian Serb government, media around the world carried a variation of this headline on Friday, June 11: "Bosnian Serbs Admit Srebrenica Massacre!" Many saw this as the final and incontrovertible proof that what happened in Srebrenica in July 1995 was a planned, systematic genocide of Bosnian Muslims – just as Sarajevo, the Western press and the Hague Inquisition have asserted all along.

As with so many things concerning the Balkans, the media was wrong yet again. The "June 11 Report" was a sham, a coerced confession with a Stalinist flavor. It was a result of viceroy Ashdown's personal fixation, and in great part simply repeated the unproven assertions of the Hague Inquisition. The only tangible good it produced was the existence of several previously unknown graves with bodies of the Srebrenica dead. It did not, however, cast a new light on the events of July 1995 – only on those today who continue to wave them about like a bloody shirt.


Here are the opening lines of a BBC news story on June 11, typical of the general tone of reporting about the Commission's "findings":

"An official Bosnian Serb investigation into the Srebrenica events of July 1995 has found that several thousand Muslims were murdered by local Serb forces.

"It is the first time the Bosnian Serb authorities have admitted the killings which The Hague war crimes tribunal has declared an act of genocide."

Framed this way, it sounds straightforward: many Muslims were killed; this was ruled to be genocide; Serbs confessed; end of story – which is doubtless the way viceroy Ashdown had in mind when he established the Commission and ordered it to produce a conclusion he would accept, "or else." What any of that has to do with truth is an entirely different matter.

The full text of the report is not widely available yet. Though substantial excerpts were published by regional media, the Western press remained content to offer its own interpretation, mostly along the lines of the above-mentioned BBC story. One notable exception is Nicholas Wood of the New York Times, who provides the most meaningful quote from the report:

"[S]everal thousand [Bosnian Muslims] were liquidated in a manner which represents a heavy violation of international human rights."

This is clearly an admission that Serb forces executed POWs, something the Serbs never really contested. It is not an admission of genocide, or even a confirmation of the infamous number of "8,000." Those who have trumpeted both over the past ten years obviously didn't consider in their interest to note the distinction – but it was there, nonetheless.


Crucial for understanding the June 11 report is the role Bosnia's viceroy Paddy Ashdown played in its creation. Namely, the Commission was established by Ashdown in October 2003, after the Serb Republic was forced to fund the building of a Muslim "genocide memorial" in Potocari. The memorial was opened by Bill Clinton last September, prompting a rehash of all the propaganda about Srebrenica. A month later, Ashdown gave the eulogy at the funeral of Muslim leader Alija Izetbegovic, making no secret of his sympathies in Bosnia.

In April this year, Ashdown vented his anger at the Commission's apparent inability to follow simple orders and sacked the Bosnian Serbs' top general as well as one of the key Commission members, Dejan Miletic. However, Ashdown's vendetta ruffled the wrong feathers.

According to a Washington-based intelligence newsletter, Defense and Foreign Affairs, SFOR officials intervened, claiming that the sacking of Miletic "dealt a major blow to counter-terrorism intelligence in Bosnia-Herzegovina at a critical time." As a result, Miletic's dismissal was reversed, and he was in fact promoted – the first time anything like that happened to anyone proscribed by the viceroy. Commenting on the affair to DFA, one SFOR official said:

"[Ashdown's] only concern is to protect his own reputation and his old Muslim friends who have turned out to be radical Islamists and not the democratic moderates he thought them to be."

Ashdown ended up getting his "Srebrenica confession," but he already had a new demand in store: arrest Radovan Karadzic! And while the bumbling Serb officials try to appease him but complain that Karadzic is awfully hard to find (after all, NATO occupation troops have failed to seize him for over eight years), Ashdown is already scheming to use this impossible demand as an excuse to further centralize Bosnia. News from Sarajevo is that Izetbegovic's heir Sulejman Tihic is demanding the abolition of the Serb Republic altogether.

Because of Ashdown, it was virtually impossible for the Commission to produce an objective report. They went a step further, though, and simply copied crucial sections from the Hague Inquisition. Here is a quote from the report, printed in the Belgrade daily Vecernje Novosti on June 12:

"Because of time limitations, and to rationalize the proceedings, the Commission copied the historical context and statement of facts contained in the verdict 'Prosecution vs. Radislav Krstic,' in which the accused was convicted by the Appeals chamber of the Hague Tribunal of aiding and abetting genocide committed in Srebrenica."

There is a major problem with the "facts" from the April 28, 2004 Krstic judgment, hailed as "historic" by the pro-Tribunal press. Even a cursory analysis reveals that Krstic was never given a fair trial, and that the judgment was based on assumptions that were (among other things) self-contradictory. Furthermore, the verdict "established" genocide in Srebrenica through subterfuge: not only was the concept of genocide defined so loosely it could encompass just about any number of people, but:

"[N]o evidence was presented to substantiate the prosecutor's claims that between 7,000 and 8,000 Muslim men were ever executed in the first place. The failure of Krstic's defense team to adequately contest that assertion doesn't by any means prove that it's true."

It would be interesting to compare the Krstic verdict with the text of the June 11 report, and see how much of it was actually original…


In late 2002, eminent Balkans scholar Alex Dragnich wrote a roundup of various reports on Srebrenica in the South Slav Journal, warning that "before we can have a final verdict on Srebrenica, a great deal of arduous work remains to be done." Dragnich argues that a "steady beat" of propaganda has drowned out actual research on the subject.

There are certainly many unknowns about Srebrenica that are still to be addressed. The Dutch have done some in-depth work concerning the presence of their peacekeepers; their 2002 report treats the allegation that Serbs massacred Muslims as established fact, but it is otherwise solid. One of the major issues they raise is the incongruity of having a "safe area" that has never been demilitarized, and is indeed home to an entire division of the Bosnian Muslim army.

How is it that nearly all commanders of the 28th Division were evacuated by the Sarajevo government prior to July 1995? Who decided to conduct a fighting retreat to Tuzla, instead of surrendering and hoping for an exchange? Why was the Second Corps of the Bosnian [Muslim] Army sitting idle, when it could have at least launched a spoiling attack? Did Izetbegovic purposefully let Srebrenica fall and its people suffer, to score propaganda points? These are the questions asked by several Bosnian weeklies and a few politicians, as well as war veterans.

There are other questions no one is asking. What of the Srebrenica Serbs, ethnically cleansed in 1992? What of the great Muslim offensive that collapsed in April 1993? What about Naser Oric's videotaped atrocities? One report that tried to put Srebrenica in the wider context of the war, published in September 2002 by a Bosnian Serb commission, was harshly denounced by both Muslims and Ashdown. There has yet to be another.

It has been established beyond reasonable doubt that a number of Bosnian Muslims died in July 1995, between Srebrenica and Tuzla. But while most media conjure images of unarmed civilians lined up and shot or slaughtered, most of the dead belonged to the 28th Division of the BH Army, and were therefore not civilians. While there are civilians among the bodies exhumed and identified so far, they were among those who chose to join the 28th in its ill-fated fighting retreat. According to most sources, anywhere between four and six thousand people made it to Tuzla; others fell prey to firefights, artillery, landmines, exhaustion and starvation (it's a 50-mile hike over bad terrain) – and yes, some were captured and executed by the Bosnian Serbs, Malmedy-style. The real question is, how many? Forensic experts examining the exhumed bodies should be able to determine the cause of death easily – yet their voice has been conspicuously absent.

Bosnian Serbs never denied that their forces killed many Srebrenica Muslims; indeed, they've admitted killing several thousand in combat. What they have always contested – and still do, even in the June 11 report (though not explicitly) – was the allegation that they massacred some 8,000-plus unarmed civilians, and with genocidal intent at that.

So far, the accusation of genocide relies on assertions and conjectures of the Sarajevo government and the ICTY prosecution. Such a serious charge demands strong and overwhelming evidence, and there simply isn't any. If there were, would Ashdown have tried to extort a confession?

Though issues of the victims' identity (POW or civilian) and the manner of death are entirely legitimate, quibbling about whether 14-year-olds were combatants is simply in bad taste. Fact is, thousands of families suffered a grievous loss, and that tragedy is being cruelly manipulated to achieve political ends. Truth may be the first casualty of war, but these people are very real victims, too. Not that the list stops there.

Muslims, believing themselves the virtuous victims of "aggression" and "genocide," find themselves blinded to Izetbegovic's hateful ideology of domination that tore Bosnia apart. Serbs, targeted by propaganda of unprecedented proportions accusing them of Nazi-like evil, refuse to acknowledge any of the atrocities they may have actually committed, rightly afraid it would be considered an admission of the fabrications as well. The population of the Empire, deluded by lies of their governments and media to believe in "humanitarian" and other interventions, increasingly lose their lives, liberty and property as Bosnia has led to Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, and God knows where else. All victims: of war and politics.

The only truth about Srebrenica that no one can contest is that war is a crime against humanity. Trying to present such state-organized murder as a fight against "evil" by putting enemies on trial for "war crimes" is simply an attempt to mask that fact.


28 posted on 05/02/2005 5:10:00 AM PDT by SQUID
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To: SQUID
Sorry, SQUID, your article from Antiwar.com was written in June 2004. As you can see from following the links at post 2 above, the Bosnian Serb government apology and their admission that the Srebrenica massacre was planned are from five months afterward in November 2004.

Nice source, though--like so many of those who support Serb revisionism in the Balkans, the author of your article--Nebojsa Malic--is an ardent anti-American active in leftist circles. He is, however, available for your next little Free Slobo get-together. Just contact the folks below so Nebojsa can speak "truth to power" about President Bush's war crimes:

http://antiwar.com/speakers/

29 posted on 05/02/2005 6:49:59 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
smart a$$. I simply used his article to see if any of those things were still unresolved. You simply ignored it and away we go. Revisionist my A$$. It's was your pal Clinton who gave the Nazi Croatian Tudjman a GREATER CROATIA and the Muslims who the US is fighting to this day a new land in Kosovo and Bosnia.

The fact is, it's all politics. If I had a gun at your head and asked you to apologies I guarantee you would. In order to get money, power and favor.

The fact is, Kosovo is still a failure. The riots last year proved that the pro Muslim NATO idiots are willing to stand by and watch Orthodox Christianity go down the tubes while the Muslims burned the Serbian population out of existence. Where is your Ethnic Cleaning Police now?
If you haven't noticed there Mr. Brilliant Croatia has never had the amount of coast that it has now. They never had rights to Dalmacia and yet looky, it's all now just Croatia. Are you concerned about that? Mr. Fair play?

Are you worried about the fact that the KLA was removed from the State departments terrorist organizations list by Albright just so she can turn them into the new champions of Democracy?

Talk about revisionist I bet you are the type that would say that Jasenovac never happened. But then again, you probably couldn't find Yugoslavia on a map before the media showed you.
30 posted on 05/02/2005 10:16:00 AM PDT by SQUID
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To: SQUID

Your post shows and incredible depth of ignorance on Balkan history. No offense intended.


31 posted on 05/02/2005 11:34:52 AM PDT by Diocletian
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To: SQUID
pro Muslim NATO idiots

The military commander of NATO, General Jones of the U.S. Marine Corps, would perhaps resist your characterization of him. And I suppose Secretary Rumsfeld, as one of the leading political figures in NATO, would as well. And since NATO operates on consensus and President Bush could immediately bring any NATO action to a halt by withdrawing US consent, but hasn't done so, I guess he's included in your "NATO idiots" characterization as well.

BTW, you're wrong about about the KLA being removed from the list of terror organizations--they were never on it. Unfortunately, just as with so much of what you post, the source documents are available and directly contradict you. The first official State Department list of terrorist organizations was published in 1997 and you can see it here. It is updated every two years. Here’re the ones for 1999 and 2001.

Good luck with your ideas on the boundaries of Croatia. Over the past 50 years there's been little change except for up north near Slovenia.

32 posted on 05/02/2005 11:51:17 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: Diocletian
hehehe on your post to the squid...lol

On the streets of Belgrade one cannot walk more than block without coming across posters praising Ratko

this is total BS! while there, rarely did I see any posters of him. There were tons of rock singers, but no Ratko.

This article is all bunk as it fails to mention the muslim attacks in surrounding areas/towns outside of Srebrenica/Bratunac region.

California SUCKS!

I had an encounter with a 7ft rattler while doing a trail run yesterday late afternoon. We had a semi-mexican standoff, I politely gave him the wide berth, mr diamondback requires...:) Either that or the flash of my knife/blade for his life and snake skin boots..:)

33 posted on 05/04/2005 6:48:47 PM PDT by ma bell ("Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". Major General Chesty Puller, USMC)
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To: mark502inf
Sorry, SQUID. I gained a lot of clues when I was working the Balkans as a military officer...

Whose military? You sound like an islamofascist sadist.

34 posted on 06/23/2005 6:12:25 AM PDT by kimosabe31
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To: mark502inf
IN APRIL 1993, THE FORMER Bosnian mining town of Srebrenica became the first city in the world to be declared a United Nations' "safe area."

Translation: "Privileged sanctuary" for the cruel, sadistic Naser Oric and his pack of muslim killers of old men, women and children. Sadly Oric escaped before the Serbs rounded up his pack of vermin.

35 posted on 06/23/2005 6:56:57 AM PDT by kimosabe31
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