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So now the number of A380s Airbus needs to sell to sell just to make the money invested back is double the original estimate of 250 and over a period of 20 years.
1 posted on 04/28/2005 10:06:57 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: Jim Robinson
€12 billion

I guess the Euro sign is an illegal character on Free Republic.

2 posted on 04/28/2005 10:08:12 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Andrew Heyward's got to go!)
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To: COEXERJ145; microgood; liberallarry; cmsgop; shaggy eel; RayChuang88; Larry Lucido; namsman; ...
Ping!

If you want on or off my aviation ping list, please contact me by Freep mail not by posting to this thread.

3 posted on 04/28/2005 10:14:46 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Andrew Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Paleo Conservative
I think the biggest problem (literally!) for the A380 is the fact airports will have to redo their runways, taxiways and parking gates just to accommodate this huge plane, a process that is not in the cheap department.

On the other hand, the current 777 and future 787 planes are easily compatible with current international airport infrastructure, so there's no need for expensive reconstruction just to accommodate the Boeing planes (most airports did the upgrades back in the 1970's to accommodate the 747).

4 posted on 04/28/2005 10:28:51 PM PDT by RayChuang88
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To: Paleo Conservative

Would anyone like to be among 800 passengers on the sasme plane? How long would it take to get off and on, never mind getting luggage? They would have to offer a lot of extras to First and business-class passengers.


5 posted on 04/28/2005 10:41:39 PM PDT by RobbyS (JMJ)
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To: Paleo Conservative

I wonder airbus is going to hold back on announceents in order to have them "appear" at the paris airshow.


This does not cover the "order wars" success that Boeing seems to have had of late.


15 posted on 04/29/2005 7:26:56 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: Paleo Conservative

Strong Indications Of Purple Kool-Aid
And, Don Corleone As Sales Director

Airbus rolled out the A-380 last week, with one heck of a welcoming party. Judging by what went on, the late Reverend Jim Jones was manning the cocktail bar.

In what appeared to be the biggest political circus since Monica's blue dress came back from the dry cleaners, the Europeans all joined together to celebrate, nay, worship, the A-380 WhaleJet. Sort of like a coming-out party for a five-ton overweight debutante. Over 5,000 people were reportedly there. Lots of speeches. Enough dry-ice fog to look like an outtake from Saturday Night Fever. Confetti falling from the ceiling. Music. The heads of state from all over the Continent - enough political suits to fill the Big 'n Tall section at Men's Wearhouse.

And everybody, apparently, was drinking Rev. Jim's Purple Kool-Aid. You just gotta dig some of the grand pronouncements at the gala...

"Under the name of Airbus, Europe has written one of the most beautiful pages of its history," gushed Airbus chief Noel Forgeard.

Jacques Chirac, entertaining all, added to global warming with jingoistic speeches about the glory of France, as if anybody cared.

"We need many other projects of this size and of this ambition," Chirac gurgled, as he called for "a great European effort based on the strength of our businesses and of our laboratories that allows our industries to be at the forefront of innovation and at the heart of tomorrow's markets."

All-in-all, a gutsy demand from a guy running a country with an enforced 35-hour limit on the work week and a legislated month of vacation time. It's a wonder this thing ever got out of the hangar. A gutsy statement, too, about an airplane that is essentially not much more than a composite 747 on steroids.

The Glory of France, England, and Europe First. Market Analyses Second. The whole show looked like a junior high pep-rally that got way over budget. The real story wasn't the airplane. It was the high-level politicos and various other luminaries that surrounded it, and what they really said. Aside from all the gush, the message seemed to be some adolescent chant, "Golly-gee, we got one bigger than Boeing."

We Heard All This 40 Years Ago. Take all those quotes, and it sounds distantly familiar. Just replace "Airbus" with "Concorde" and you've just done a time-trip back to the 1960s, when the whiz-kids of Europe announced a supersonic jet program that was aimed at one thing: Showing the US that Europe could build really fancy machinery. Economic viability wasn't the issue - just the dream was enough. They wanted to show the US that they were big boys, too.

And they did - heck, the Concorde was an airplane that even by today's technology would be tough to build. A 1.5 mach airplane is possible right now. But a 2.0 rocket like the Concorde is a geometric jump. Trust us - we've done the feasibility studies for aircraft manufacturers - the Concorde is a technological wonder for today, let alone the 1960s.

Yessir, the Europeans achieved their goal. They built a supersonic airliner before the US did. In fact, the US never built one. The Russians did - the TU-144, which is best remembered for coming completely unglued in the sky over the 1973 Paris Air Show.

Unfortunately, just building the Concorde was the alpha and the omega of the program. Market demand, mission viability, and economic realities weren't addressed. The result was what is now considered one of history's greatest planning disasters.

See, the Concorde had the operational economics of a flying brick. Far from being the 707 replacement they predicted, the Euros got just 16 of these contraptions built before they tossed in the towel - something that at least the French seem to excel at doing, by the way. Britain and France then effectively gave the airplanes to their respective state carriers, and dropped the whole thing.

So here we are 20 years later, and notwithstanding the success of the superb A-320 and A-340 programs, the Euros still have a bad case of US-envy. So, they went ahead and built a jet that was bigger, taller, longer than anything the US has put out. Voila! The A-380. They want to out-do the 747. What they missed is that the 747 is a 1970s concept that may not have much viability in the 21st century.

Some Reality Please. But back to the roll-out gala. The purple Kool-Aid was flowing, jumbojet fans. See, this A-380 sucker is big. Really big. So big that Virgin Airways' CEO declared that he's thinking of installing exercise rooms and casinos and all sorts of other stuff on his A-380s. Just what premium passengers want. A roll of the dice at the crap table, a spin on the Lifecycle, and a trip to the massage parlor, all surrounded by comely female flight attendants in designer uniforms.

Wow, can't wait. It'll kinda be like the Playboy Mansion, 'cept that it flies and won't have Hef wandering around in pajamas looking for a Viagra tablet. Gee that'll really do wonders to the ASM costs of the A-380. (Remember the piano lounges on American Airlines' 747's in the early 1970s? There's a reason they're not there anymore. Come to think of it, there's a reason there's no 747s, period, at AA anymore.)

Let's Get Back To Reality. There's no doubt that the A-380 will be a technological marvel. But the open question is whether Airbus can sell enough of them to make economic sense. They say gazillions. But looking at traffic flows and airport facilities, we can see, best case, 350-400 A-380s over the next 15 years. As for the initial sales announced, nobody knows what the terms were, and when over 25% of the sales are to one carrier - Emirates - one has to question how firm these sales are.

EU: Making Offers Other Nations Can't Refuse? Then we have the issue of the European Union doing the Don Corleone routine on foreign nations to buy the A-380. It's been reported that Thailand has been strong-armed, with an offer they can't refuse. Buy some A-380s, and you won't have any tariff problems with some Thai imports into the EU. Or, China. Remember that arms embargo resulting from the 1989 Tien An Men Square affair? Well, just sign on the dotted line for a fleet of WhaleJets, and everything will be okay, by and by. Don't think for one second these types of EU-government shake-downs aren't in the cards to peddle these A-380s. Remember, it isn't an airplane. It's the honor, the glory, and the reputation of all Europe that's on the line.

In the interests of historical perspective, virtually every new airliner that's come on the market since Wilbur and Orville was declared "too big" by one or more sections of the Luddite community. "Hey, how ya going to fill 21 seats? That DC-3'll never make it..." It was certainly said about the 747, and the years immediately after its introduction seemed to initially prove it. But things are very different now. The R&D costs, the total sector expenses, the capital required, not to mention the issue of airport facilities, all point to a much more limited demand for the A-380 than Mr. Chirac and his buddies seem to think.

"...the A380 superjumbo -- overweight, overbudget, but hailed by its makers as a major European feat that will reshape aviation..." Reuters, January 20, 2005.

The Concorde was supposed to reshape aviation, too.

(c) 2005, The Boyd Group/ASRC, Inc. All Rights Reserved


28 posted on 04/29/2005 10:54:22 PM PDT by hattend (Alaska....in a time warp all it's own!)
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