Posted on 04/27/2005 9:52:40 AM PDT by jebanks
Salazar has gone over the edge ...
Referring to Focus on the Family: "They are the anti-christ of the world"
Look at "War of Words" clip.
http://www.kktv.com
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
So the SBC is mistaken but the Catholic church is not? Interesting.
Statement: CP0802
CATHOLICS AND SALVATION
Some people say that the Catholic church teaches salvation by works. Is this true?
To begin with, let me state up front that Catholics do not teach salvation by works. In fact, the Catholic church firmly maintains that man can only be saved by God’s grace. However, ask Catholics whether they believe that they are justified by faith alone and chances are pretty good you’ll get “no” for an answer. Consequently, some evangelicals have mistakenly concluded that Catholics hold to salvation by works.
Justification, to evangelicals, means that God declares us righteous the instant you or I repent and receive Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior — and this, despite our sinfulness. Actually, it’s a singular event, something that is completed instantaneously. Catholics, on the other hand, understand justification to mean that God makes us righteous. It’s seen as a process whereby God gradually perfects us; and this is, incidentally, why Catholics believe that only in the end will believers be sure as to whether they’re truly justified or saved.
In addition, evangelicals believe in justification by faith alone. And by faith we mean not only knowledge and agreement, but also personal trust in Jesus Christ alone for eternal life. In sharp distinction, Catholics see faith as nothing more than passive agreement, which again is why they don’t believe in justification by faith alone. Catholics actually consider human works as vital elements in the process of justification. This is because they are held to be the result of God’s grace working through and perfecting believers.
Well, in sharp contrast to the evangelical belief that works are the fruits of justification, Catholics say that justification results from a combination of faith and works made possible by God’s grace. Yes, we regard the Catholic conception of justification to be confused. Yes, we take serious issue with the numerous doctrines and practices that it has produced. Though they can be rightly faulted on these points, no one can legitimately claim that Catholics teach a crass system of salvation by works.
So, once again, it is important to understand that while many Catholics believe in salvation through works, the official stance of Roman Catholicism is that justification results from a combination of faith and works which is made possible by the grace of God.
On Catholics and the doctrine of salvation, that’s the CRI Perspective. I’m Hank Hanegraaff.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION
An edited transcript of the dialogue between Walter Martin and Father Mitchell Pacwa entitled “Justification By Faith: A Catholic-Protestant Dialogue,” is available from CRI (DC126/$0.25). Additionally, discussions of the subject are included in the following book, Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and Differences by Norman Geisler and Ralph MacKenzie, available from CRI (B196/$25). These resources are available through CRI. For shipping and handling information, please refer to our Resource Listing. To place a credit card order, call toll-free (888) 7000-CRI. To receive a free copy of our Resource Listing, fax us at (714) 858-6111 or write us with your request at P.O. Box 7000, Rancho Santa Margarita, CA 92688-7000.
The true church is the Body of Christ, not a denomination of any sort. A true believer is one in whom Christ dwells. Period.
Salazar is making a huge mistake on this one. His victory was based on an aura of quietness and respectability. To have him foaming at the mouth on this will cost him.
Catholics, on the other hand, understand justification to mean that God makes us righteous. It’s seen as a process whereby God gradually perfects us; and this is, incidentally, why Catholics believe that only in the end will believers be sure as to whether they’re truly justified or saved.
This is extremely close to a fully accurate statement.
Doctrinally, yes.
This does not mean that individual Catholics are never mistaken in their behavior. Because they are. Quite frequently.
IMHO Salazar is making a number of rookie mistakes. Not surprising considering the only office he had been elected to before was Attorney General, and here those are low-profile Marquis of Queensbury rules elections. He really wasn't tested as A.G., either. He seems to have a very short fuse, which almost always causes bad things to happen to pols.
There are real doctrinal differences between Catholics and Baptists (and Jews and Mormons and Muslims etc. etc.). Discussing those differences honestly will entail assertions that one doctrine is false and another one, true. There is nothing mean and nasty about this. It is not bigotry or defamation. It's nothing to get offended about. It is a intellectual process of trying to sort out the authoritative sources and reliability of any given doctrine.
Adults used to do this all the time. The process actually implies mutual respect, since it assumes that (1) truth matters to both sides, and (2) you expect your opponent to be able to follow your argument, and respond to its reasonableness. That's quite a compliment.
I'm no Baptist, and I am convinced that Dr. Mohler is mistaken about the Catholic Church. Nonetheless I respect him. I'd rather have a religious debate with somebody who says, "You're WRONG on that point," than with somebody who says, "You have YOUR truth; I have MY truth; and it really doesn't make any difference because nothing means all that much anyway."
Glad to hear that assessment. We like him - we're hoping that in a few years he'll be elevated to an even larger diocese, hopefully LA.
He seems to have a very short fuse, which almost always causes bad things to happen to pols.
Is there other evidence of this?
Indeed. It seems ridiculous that Mr. Mohler cannot declare his faith to be, in fact, correct. But certainly the Catholic church in theology if not in practice maintains that they find serious questions with the salvation of Protestants. To find Mohler's statement out-of-bounds is absurd.
The Catholic Church would say that anybody who has been baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is Catholic. Really. A member of the Catholic-means-universal Church. So you're really ---but, we would say, imperfectly--- Catholic. ;-)
We also believe that anybody who is saved, is saved by Christ; and further that anyone who is saved, is saved through the Church (the Church being Christ's Mysical Body on earth.) But that does not mean you've got to be an enrolled, dues-paying member of a Catholic parish to be saved. We think you ought to be, of course. Then you could receive the other Sacraments. They are tremendous helps, given to us by Christ, to draw nearer to Him and to live a holy life.
And we know enough about sin (our own) to know that we-all need as much help as we can get.
By the way, pleased to meet you, Mr (or is it Ms?) Ghost of Freepers Past!
One thing Salazar seems to be trying to do is mend fences with the left by swinging wildly against evangelicals, which is always popular with that crowd.
But, as we discussed, he forgot about the effect on the Catholics, which, come to think about it, the Dims have been doing for decades!
Nice find!
My posting hiccupped! Don't know how that one happened...
Wow, thanks for that!! Seems to conflict with other things I've seen posted by Catholics on FR, but your version (no offense intended) is better. :-)
Ms. And thank you. Pleased to meet you too.
-He lied during his campaign... saying that the "judicial nominees deserve an up-or-down vote"... now he's supporting the filibuster.-
He is a democrate after all...flip flop!
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