Posted on 04/22/2005 10:03:43 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
According to former Russian Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin, now Russian ambassador to Ukraine, Georgia is more to blame for the Soviet genocide against Ukrainians than Russia. Chernomyrdin told journalists, "If we speak about terror in the times of the U.S.S.R., as a result of that, the number of Russians killed was far greater than that of Ukrainians. We still cannot answer to our people for that. If anyone is to receive claims, address them to Georgia, the 'father of nations' Joseph Stalin was from that country." During the U.S.S.R.'s 1932-1933 collectivization drive, an estimated 5 million to 7 million Ukrainians in the "bread basket" of the U.S.S.R. perished during a famine deliberately instituted by Stalin.
(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...
"So by your words, I guess the Nazis weren't that bad to you?"
To me ? I haven't even seen any Nazi.
"No, I'd say they're worse."
Worse than who ?
Just look at his persoanl keyword lists:
CHECHINS - Only the Voice of Moscow uses the mispelling "Chechins."
FOURTH REICH - a quick review of this list turns up this article EU challenges Putin (Fourth Reich on move alert!) Posted by RussianConservative - Voice of Moscow picked his theme back up in his new incarnation as jb6 about a year later with a post from a tinfoil site. Plans for the Fourth Reich (EU Reich Rising)
I don't see anyone here defending Dzhugazhvili. What I do see is a lot of historical inaccuracies bantied about to try to prove one's argument. Ironically, Stalin's quote about 10 murders being a crime and millions a mere statistic seem pretty relevant on this thread...
OK and what precisely is the argument he's trying to make?
I know damn well others share responsiblity. But there are plenty here that try to pretend that Russians are blameless for anything that happened during the Soviet period. " It was all Stalins fault" won't cut it.
You have taught us some really good historical facts, and mostly I have agreed with you in this discussion. But you're way out of line downplaying Chavez. He is supporting proxy insurgencies all throughout Latin America, even actively shopping for new ones to support. How many attrocities will be committed by these groups, how many people will be enslaved by governments installed by these groups with crazy ideologies? Not something to take lightly for a second.
Oh Please. I've responded to an endless string of posts by certain people arguing that Russia and Russians have no responcibility for any of the events of the Soviet Union. Some have argued that Russia never oppressed any other groups like Ukraine or Poland even under the CZARs and the "RUSSIAN Empire".
And yeah you are wrong. I'm not a Pole, I'm an American of Ukrainian descent. I don't hate Russians, I profoundly hope they can shake off their past and develop a real democracy. I would like them to leave their neighbors in peace so they can try to do the same. At this point I don't trust their leaders or government to do so.
non-Russian ethnics dominated the Communist party because many ethnic communities saw it as a way to overthrow the Czar. ===
Kozak but it is the truth.
During Civil war 1918-22 Reds compise international and inter-ethnical commies plus minority of russians.
White movement: majority of russians plus some of other ethnicities (even 2 regiments of polacks which is real surprise!).
Why so many nonrussian citizens of Russian empire went with commies? Because commies promised them INDEPENDENCE from Russian empire!
Of cause later those commies took away promise and betrayed them and they become victims of commies. So now we all speak about them victims but forget that they helped to bring commies to power at first place.
Let us be fair and speak about who and what brought commies to power.
BTW as ukranian plz tell Tailgunner that western Ukraine is ukranian land no matter that was Stalin who united Ukraine.
Did you miss the " I blame the Ukrainians and other minorities". THAT's what I mean about not accepting responcibility. LEFT TO OURSELVES the Ukraine would not have BEEN part of the Soviet Union, OR communist.
BTW Do you also think that Ukrainians and Belorussians are Russian tribes and that's why should be controlled by Kremlin ?==
All three ukranians, bellorussians and russians are from one root- ancient Kiev Rus.
This is the best - you claim to be anti-communist, but you try to justify Stalin's actions. ===
I don't. I just say that ukranian men has to be more supportive that Stalin move. For Russia the unification of Ukraine wasn't good or bad. Stalin acted by this not in interests of Russia. That is sure thing.
In my view jb6 just asks for EQUALITY in representation of action of Stalin and his opponents.
I mean that if someone did or does something then it allows by precendent to do same for others.
Stalin went to agreement with Hitler to partition Poland. It is bad.
BUT same Poland one year before (in 1938) partitioned Checkoslovakia with same Hitler's Germany. How is that?
Stalin signed non-agression pact with Hitler. Then we has to remember that Britain and France in 1936 signed same kind of treaty with same Hitler in 1936 in Munich. How is that?
Another example form different area.
If some party can trade with China for 10 yards per year then other party can do same. If one party can sell weaponry to Saudis then others can do same. And so on.
If we agree all this then we are balanced and fair. Otherwise we are hypocrites.
LEFT TO OURSELVES the Ukraine would not have BEEN part of the Soviet Union, OR communist.===
How so if many ukranians fought for commies. If Lenin goverment had 6 ukranians- ministers.
What you say is just wishful thinking. In reality ukraninas went with commies in mass.
Remember the book of one ukranian writer Ostrovskii "How steel strentthen". Rememberverse writer Maiakovskii - the singer of Revolution as they named him.
Both are ukranians.
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