Posted on 04/21/2005 9:20:39 PM PDT by Coleus
Hmm if that is true why is India and China booming while in Western Europe, where deaths are going to overtake births, the economy is in the tank.
Ya know, once upon time, an empire faced tremendous illegal immigration by folks seeking a better life. The illegal immigrants brought lands under cultivation that the empire's citizens wouldn't cultivate and did work they wouldn't.
That empire was Rome and those "immigrants" were Teutons, Vandals, Goths, Visigoths, etc.; i.e. 'barbarians." And they ended up destroying Rome.
Wake up! Close the freakin' gates and toss the barbarians OUT!
That chart is really less than informative. It doesn't take into account all the vagaries inherent in third-world systems. To declare free trade (which has not ever existed) a factor has not been proven.
Such as? Are you familiar with Heritage's annual Index of Economic Freedom?
So, what economic liberties are we restricting in Guatemala?
Gosh, please enlighten me.
See post #26. Most illegals come here intending to earn their own way but too often their plans don't pan out. When that occurs they find we have a virtual charity industry eager to "help" them at taxpayer expense, legal aid designed to help them avoid deportation and preposterous laws that assure free emergency health care and education for their offspring.
What is lacking is any incentive to return to their home countries. The bishop is correct when he pointed out that these trade agreements have nothing to offer the underclass of poor Latin American countries - any fool has but to look at Mexico to witness how NAFTA helped "all boats rise" there.
We're already floating over 10% of Mexico's former population. Are you prepared to accept an even larger inundation from the poorer nations below it?
Dane, normally I have no interest in talking to you because I've seen your debate tactics but in this case you asked a respectful question so I'll answer you once.
There are lots of ways to measure economic performance. One would be the size of an economy (measured by GDP) and another would be the standard of living an economy provides for its people (measured by GDP per capita).
China will almost certainly someday soon have the world's largest GDP. It is doing a better job of employing its one abundant resource. But even if it successfully (which it won't) grabs every job in the Western world, it will still have a vast under/un-employed population and those who are employed will not be enjoying our standard of living. They will not enjoy our GDP per capita because labor is the world's most abundant resource and it only takes a fraction of the world's people to produce all the goods and services the world can consume.
China and India have booming economies and Europe is in the economic tank but where would you rather live: India or Italy?
People are voting with their feet and if you look at immigration patterns you will find that they are not running towards India or China.
I am far more interested in maintaining and improving the standard of living for Americans then I am in winning the race for economic growth with China and India. I want to live in the best economy measured by GDP per capita rather than the biggest economy measured by just GDP.
I am not hostile to economic growth or immigration. But the kind of economic growth I want is not the junk growth driven by importing an ignorant population (we import 10,000 people so we build a new Walmart and a new McDonalds). Real wealth is either farmed, mined, invented or manufactured. You cannot consume your way to riches. I am happy to have immigrants that contribute more real wealth than they consume. Ignorant people from the third world don't fall into that category and they drag done rather than drag up our GDP per capita.
Pleased to meet you, Ben. My name's Fletch.
" Ah, so you've never driven past the posted speed limit, eh? If so, then you are a . . . CRIMINAL!"
I have NEVER, knowingly or willingly violated any speed limit. I've never received as much as a parking ticket. I'm a conservative that believes in following the law. I should note however that there is a BIG difference between a driving CITATION and a FELONY. (but then again,to you OBB's (Open Border Buddies), violating the law is no big deal as long as it benefits YOU. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!
Be Ever Vigilant!
Minutemen Patriots ~ Bump!
History is full of such examples. Let's start with free trade with the Indians.
Also our rust belt state has sent money here for years to have free Hispanic health care fairs.
Most of the world is foaming at the mouth to be able to come to America and steal from the taxpayers. Americans are hated above all other nations because we have made living wages for many years. Because of that, we are sitting ducks here in America, and we have a president who doesn't care about the citizens, or the future of America.
Please, do start with the Indians (I assume your referring to the aboriginal peoples within the boundries of the United States from the mid-1600's until the late 1800's).
How exactly did the "Indians" prosper ?
He's not saying that. He's against CAFTA.
There are several routes to legal immigration. You are describing one of them. There are green card slots for: skilled workers, unskilled workers, family reunification, refugees, visa lottery winners and I think very rich people like George Soros.
By far the largest category is family reunification. Once one immigrant becomes a citizen he can petition to bring his parents, spouse, children, brothers, sisters, aunts and uncles. And as each of these become citizens they can likewise petition. We end up with chain migration where we import whole villages and tribes and a lot of them are older folks and unskilled folks who represent a taxpayer burden.
This area of our legal immigration policy badly needs reform. We should make family reunification easier, faster and in fact almost automatic but it should be limited strictly to spouse and minor children. Once somebody is a citizen they can always go visit their parents and extended family or have them visit America but the taxpayer should not get stuck with welfare for a bunch of old people and ignorant people who have never contributed anything to the tax base.
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