Exactly What Are "Canadian Values"?

Assuming for the sake of argument that Canada had nothing to do with 9/11, how were US visas granted without some sort of breeder or foundational document, as in a Canadian or foreign government visa or passport? In other words, I'd like to know any news or (any other credible) source exonerating the lax Canadian political asylum system from being a breeding ground for terrorists.

No less a conservative than Newt Gingrich has called for a closer monitoring of both borders. But whenever porous borders are discussed, Mexico is completely blamed and Canada is completely exonerated for potential terrorist problems. Snarky little back door racist comments surface in FR and other venues about this issue. Apologists for Canada always blindly defend their cultural homeboys, even though there's no shortage of evidence that Canada harbors terrorists.

For example, check out Behind the Terror Alerts, an MSNBC interview with Newsweek's Washington Bureau Chief Dan Klaidman [http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5635181/site/newsweek/]. In the interview, Daniel Klaidman said: There has been persistent intelligence that terrorists would like to cross into America through our very porous Mexican border. But the truth is, far more terrorists have actually come in through Canada. Remember the Millennium plot, when an Al Qaeda operative named Ressam entered Washington State from Canada. He was stopped by an alert Customs Agent.

While it might be true that none of the 19 entered by the Canadian border and were issued visas by the US, there is still a border problem with Canada. Apologists for Canada may use the excuse that just because Canada had nothing to do with 9/11 means the Canadian border problem should be ignored.

At best, this Canadian excuse is an artful, but misleading, turn of words worthy of an Air America radio squawk show host. At worst, it is demonstrative of the dangerous effects of misplaced cultural ethnocentrism, i.e., don't let your cultural allegiance blind you to reality.

I’m sorry, but you were the one who made the assertion that “Canada is the terrorist spigot that allowed many of the 9/11 terrorists into the US”. You made this claim without a lick of proof. It has never been suggested (except for you) by anyone that any foundational documents that the 19 had were Canadian based. Throughout the laborious process of identifying the terrorists and their means for entering the country, Canada was never mentioned as been complicit or responsible. The 911 Commission never once mentioned Canada as a source of the foundational documents. In fact, they lay the bureaucratic blame exactly where it should be – with us. ( http://www.9-11commission.gov/)

We let them in. We allowed them the freedom to walk the nation and kill us with impunity. Unless you have some evidence that the 911 Commission, or the rest of us have not seen, I think you owe Canada an apology...

My assertion was based upon reports from the mainstream media, which initially reported this information. As for the 9/11 Commission, it was rife with socialist Clinton apologists whose sole mission was to exonerate the deficiencies of Clinton's terrorist policies. In that vein, they would protect the socialist dominated Canadian government from harm's way. For example, Jamie S. Gorelick, as a DOJ higher-up who was a policy formulator, should have been been a witness for Commission. Instead, she was allowed to shape the conclusions of the Commission.

In addition, the extreme leftist political hack "lawyer," Richard Ben-Viniste was on the Commission, which for us older guys that remember the Whitewater "Investigation" and the Watergate "Hearings" renders the Commission's record as instantly suspect. Tim Romer, another democrat partisan member of the Commission certainly was part of the obstructionist faction of the Committee.

In short, I have tremendous problems accepting anything that a RINO-liberal Marxist "commission" asserts as the truth about 9/11. So please point me to a credible source that exonerates Canada. Now, if you happen to be a Canadian, as I suspect, I apologize for any unintended offense against you. But it's the same crap I put up with a Hispanic in the US listening to the closet bigotry about Mexicans. BTW, I can't stand Mexican President Vicente Fox, whom I consider an elitist political hack for the oligarchy.

I'm an American (NY) who is tired of unsubstantiated attacks on others by so-called conservatives who act like democrats.

If you have some proof that any of the 19 arrived in this country by way of Canada or had Canadian documentation, then let's see it. Otherwise, zip your Hillary-like trap...

(that was in reference to Hillary insisting that some of them had come over the border from the north a couple of days after 9/11. She at least had the temerity to shut up when she was proved wrong...)

p.s. Your nonsensical conspiracy theory regarding the 9/111 Commission was sad. Methinks you listen to too much Art Bell..

I thought this was a discussion forum and not a bitch slap contest. Actually, your response is the one that is more typical of a Clintonesque attack. Reread or actually read what I wrote and you'll find that I am willing to be convinced to your point of view. You will also find that I asked you initially to provide me information showing me that Canada is not a terrorist haven--9/11 included. Instead of giving me the information that I requested, you decided to go hostile on me. That tells me that you also might have a litmus test as to what constitutes a "true" conservative, i.e., if anyone disagrees with you in the slightest, then they are not a "true" conservative.

Your lack of knowledge about the background of some of the members of the 9/11 Commission is astounding. I'm surprised that you wouldn't see the foolishness of putting someone as conflicted as Jamie Gorelick on the 9/11 Commission. Gorelick was Clinton's Deputy AG who was responsible for the policy that prevented the CIA and FBI from sharing information between them. Now there's an impartial Commissioner who would not be engaged in any CYOA operation. Conspiracy theory indeed. And no, I don't listen to Art Bell, but I find nothing wrong with those that do listen to him.

BTW, the last time I checked we still have a First Amendment and if you disagree what I write, you're free to disagree. As an added courtesy, I won't tell you to "zip your lip" when you sincerely disagree with me, because that would be acting like a politically correct liberal. And I don't do a liberal fascist censorship act on anyone.

If I am the one making an accusation, then I am the one burdened with providing proof. You made a specific accusation: "Canada is the terrorist spigot that allowed many of the 9/11 terrorists into the US." that was not grounded in fact. Where is your proof? Where is your evidence? Where is your smoking gun?

The 9/11 Commission never mentioned that any of the 19 had a Canadian connection. The MSM has never mentioned a Canadian connection of the 19 (there was a rumour that two of the 19 had slipped over the border from Canada. This was discounted in the early days of the investigation) Right wing blogs have never made a Canadian connection to the 19. Even the French conspiracy writer Thierry Meyssan (he believes Bush and the Israelis were behind 9/11) has never suggested a Canadian connection.

There has never been a scintilla of proof, or a scrap of evidence put forward - after all the information has been pored over by thousands of people - that any of the 19 sacks of islamic crap had any relationship whatsoever with Canada. The only person who is putting this point forward is....YOU!

So....where's your evidence?

Doctor Luv, you said that I was wrong ("BZZZZZZZT" remember?) and so I asked you to show me some "credible evidence" that I'm wrong. That's all I asked for. I am always willing to be corrected. In the spirit of Diogenes, I tend to doubt such "official" (more like officious) Truth Commissions like the 9/11 Commission. This is because we live in an age of spin meisters.

Having said that, in the the crazy world of politics, there are cover-ups for a variety of reasons. A close reading of history would show numerous cover-ups or disinformation to justify any given policy. For example, the US generally looks the other way when there are Chinese prison labor violations, because so many of our big corporations, (owned by some of our finest liberal politicians), depend upon cheap production of goods to ensure an increased profit margin.

If I seem harsh about Canada, it's because I want equal treatment of both borders. The cyber pages of FR document my numerous tirades against the indolent "upper" class of Mexico, as represented by the puppet Vicente Fox, pushing their social problems upon the US.

On the other hand, Canada has been a valuable NAFTA trading partner, generally a good neighbor, and helped the US during the Iranian hostage captivity 25 years ago. Because of this history and cultural commonality, it would not surprise me if any allegation that there was some Canadian connection would be squelched by a politically motivated body such as the 9/11 Commission. Sorry, but cultural ethnocentrism does factor into my thinking about this issue. But, I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

PS, your spelling of "rumour" suggests that you are Canadian, n'est pas?

Most people understand that the rules of debate are predicated upon the speaker offering proof for his suppositions. You on the other hand seem to feel no compulsion to prove anything you say. If it flies out of your mouth, it must be true (not!)

You made two definitive claims:

1.” Canada is the terrorist spigot that allowed many of the 9/11 terrorists into the US”

2. “They got their initial breeder documents from Canada through its "liberal" political asylum policies.”

These are not mushy statements. They are clear accusations - yet you offer no evidence to support them except for the vague “My assertion was based upon reports from the mainstream media, which initially reported this information.”

Odd that you would rely on some dubious claim from some unstated source to form such solid convictions. I have stated that the 9/11 Commission that dissected each of the dastardly 19 made no mention of a Canadian connection. The mainstream media have provided no evidence or allegations of a Canadian connection. Alternative media sources on the left AND right have made no allegations of a Canadian connection. The Canadian government has stated clearly that there was no connection. No one – save yourself – now claims that there is a Canadian connection.

So I ask you again – where is you evidence? Do you have any? (it’s no big deal to admit you have none and you were talking off the top of your head – we all make mistakes…)

Me? Born and raised in Columbus, Georgia and now an inhabitant of NYC (I did my medical residency in Toronto where I acquired some affectations, including British spellings, a love for maple syrup and a passion for hockey)

p.s. Canada is more than a valuable NAFTA partner - they are - by far, our largest trading partner and our closest source of oil and fresh water.

First, we are dealing with my beliefs as to the truth of the charges. Beliefs imply the ability to be convinced otherwise. My beliefs as to this matter are not cast in concrete. Therefore, it is not me that is preoccupied with being "right," but you.

It is also apparent that apart from partisan "truth commissions," you cannot adequately refute my belief. (I think I've adequately argued the partisanship/bias/conflict angle regarding the 9/11 Commission.) So I will continue to stand by my initial beliefs based from media reports until shown otherwise. However, I did provide a reasonable basis for my beliefs as to Canadian based terrorism based upon the interview (URL provided) with the mainstream media Washington Editor of Newsweek in my previous posting.

I've also heard enough news reports regarding growing terrorist activity within Canada. Do I have immediate "proof" of this instantly as in transcripts? No, but I do regularly listen to Fox, Clear Channel, Salem Broadcasting, NPR, CBS, BBC, VOA, RFI, and RAI radio reports and have heard enough through various news stories to indicate that there is ongoing terrorist recruitment effort in Canada. Inasmuch as I asked you first, I think that I'm entitled to see the basis of your assertions that Canada is pristine with regard to terrorism. I've made this simple request since the beginning of this thread.

BTW, until the Castroite Hugo Chavez began playing his crypto-Marxist games, Venezuela was the 5th largest oil exporter and Canada the 7th largest exporter. Needless to say, the recent absence of Venezuelan crude has impacted the US market far more than the oil imports from Canada.

Congratulations. Until your last post, I had no idea you were a kook. You fooled me into taking your witless pronouncements at face value. I really thought I was dealing with a rational person at the other end. Shame on me for being fooled.

I have a pronouncement of my own:

The moon is made of cheese. The moon landings were fake. I read this in an article once. I will continue to stand by my initial beliefs based from media reports until shown otherwise.

The end.

So much for your bedside manner Doctor. This is the second time you've resorted to insult as your response to a sincere request for information. I cited an interview with Newsweek's Washington Editor regarding terrorist activity in Canada. Your response: silly, but worthy of a precocious 15 year old.

You seem to take yourself far too seriously as evidenced by your need to adopt Briticisms to demonstrate that you truly are a member of the elite class. Please consider curbing your tendency towards psuedo-infallibility, or is that an occupational hazard of your profession?

The End

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.