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To: Raycpa
Raycpa wrote:

You do realize that some original state's constitutions required that representatives were regular attending Christians, don't you?

You do realize that the US Constitution [Art. VI] required that "no religious test" be required for such State offices, don't you?

82 posted on 04/15/2005 9:00:59 PM PDT by P_A_I
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To: P_A_I

The first constitution to prohibit religious tests was the United States Constitution written in 1787.(6)

Article VI of the Constitution guarantees that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States" reflecting the growing movement in America towards religious freedom and also encouraging many states to end religious tests. After the U.S. Constitution came a shift in state constitutions as Georgia (1789), Delaware (1792), Vermont (1793), and Tennessee (1796) expressly forbade religious tests, and Kentucky (1792) did not mention them. Of the other two states to change constitutions in this period, Pennsylvania (1790) extended its religious test to allow Jews as well as Christians to hold office while South Carolina (1790) was the only state to continue a religious test unaltered.(7)

Some states prohibited members of the clergy from running for office, serving as an elected official or taking any role in the civil government. When the Constitution was adopted; Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia, New York, Delaware, and South Carolina had such restrictions. Gradually throughout the 1800s such restrictions were removed in most states that still had them. Finally in 1961 and again in 1978 the U S Supreme Court struck such restrictions in Maryland and Tennessee as being unconstitutional.

The use of the word "establishment" in the First Amendment is unique to constitutions of this period. No state constitution used this particular term, preferring to make specific provisions which prohibited tax monies for churches, discrimination against minority sects, and other measures which might establish a church. The use of the vague term in the Bill of Rights indicates the belief that the national government had no power in these specific areas, so that a general prohibition towards matters of religion was sufficient. In this sense, the two religion clauses, taken together, were meant to incorporate the measures in state constitutions, as well as placing further limitations on Congressional power.
The treatment of religion in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is notably different from the provisions in state constitutions; not only are the national clauses noticeably shorter in both number and length, but the completeness of their prohibitions is unprecedented--no religious tests, no establishments, no laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion. In all state constitutions there are some limits placed on these religious liberties. But the national government under the U.S. Constitution is prevented by clear and bold language from any power to control religion. Even the Preamble lacks the common reference to God which is even found in most current state constitutions.
This study of state constitutions in the founding period reveals both a wide variety of provisions concerning religion and a quick turnover of these clauses when constitutions were modified. Two important facts can be clearly discerned: (A) that the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights were a significant advancement of religious liberty over state constitution of the time; and (B) that without significant exception, the numerous changes in state constitutions served to expand, rather than restrict, religious liberty. These early constitutions show that the religion clauses of the First Amendment were only; part of a larger trend towards religious liberty and disestablishment which was ongoing in every state and eventually led to the end of direct tax support for religion in America.(8)

III

It is important to keep in mind that disestablishment was a process. Many times people forget that, and they point to this event or that event and say, "See, this shows the founders didn't mean to separate church and state because they did this or that."

Writing a clause or provision into a constitution, or passing statutes does not automatically bring about change. Humans are creatures of habit and thus tend to continue to do things in the same ways. Disestablishment, the separation of church and state producing religious freedom, would not take place over night. As already demonstrated here, it was a process, one that began on the state level in 1776, and moved forward over a period of time. That process still takes place today.

The events on the state level influenced what took place on the national level, which in turn helped reinforce and further influence what was taking place on the state level.

Moving into the 1800s and continuing on into this century; battles were, at times, fought in the state courts. Between 1800 and 1920 there were 87 recorded Sabbath closing law cases, 112 recorded church property disputes, 18 public school prayer and bible reading cases, 15 cases involving public aid to sectarian school, and 22 reported blasphemy cases. (9)


http://members.tripod.com/~candst/cnstntro.htm


85 posted on 04/15/2005 9:03:22 PM PDT by Raycpa
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To: P_A_I
Raycpa wrote:

You do realize that some original state's constitutions required that representatives were regular attending Christians, don't you?

You do realize that the US Constitution [Art. VI] required that "no religious test" be required for such State offices, don't you?

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Good, apparently you do realize that State officials were included in the 'religious test' portion of Article VI.

Thanks.

91 posted on 04/15/2005 9:20:07 PM PDT by P_A_I
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To: Raycpa
Raycpa wrote:

You do realize that some original state's constitutions required that representatives were regular attending Christians, don't you?

You do realize that the US Constitution [Art. VI] required that "no religious test" be required for such State offices, don't you?

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Good, apparently you do realize that State officials were included in the 'religious test' portion of Article VI.

Thanks.

93 posted on 04/15/2005 9:23:31 PM PDT by P_A_I
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