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To: Zero Sum

Precision guided munitions make BBs completely obsolete.


5 posted on 04/15/2005 2:49:44 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Official Ruling Class Oligarch Oppressor)
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To: FreedomPoster
Nope.

EVERY destroyer-sized ship, in every instance since WWII, that has been hit by even a dud has IMMEDIATELY lost at least one of three things needed to survive: Propulsion, power, or combat systems.

Every one of has the ability to survive a second hit.

(I forget the exact number of ships hit that I looked at: the number of "accidents" bomb hits, near-misses, accidental explosions, shrapnel hits, dud bombs, live bombs, dud rockets, dud torpedoes, live mines, etc. It was well over 60.

And EVERY ONE of these destroyer-sized ships was lost, was sunk, or was out of action. After ONLY ONE hit.

Almost all of those hit more than once sunk. Or had fires that put it out of action for months.

...

Now, what's really sobering is that NONE of these that had been "attacked" were hit a second time! Even in the Falklands, the Argentines were limited to only a few fighters who didn't strike twice. And even there the Brit's lost just under 1/3 of their escorts to single-hit failures that left them vunerable to a second wave - that didn't come.

And, most important, the Argentine bombs that DIDN'T explode (but STILL put the Brits out of action) were duds caused by US "forgetting" to tell the Ar. Air Force how to arm the US-provided fuses for low-level drops.

IF we had told them, six MORE Brit destroyers and frigates would have sunk. Not just been out-of-action until repairs were finished.
8 posted on 04/15/2005 3:06:53 AM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: FreedomPoster

While I agree that todays technology does effect survivability (of many weapon platforms) there's a couple of factors that help compensate the BB.

Normally the ship would have air, surface, and subsurface escorts. I don't feel the ship would be any more vulnerable today than other USN Ships. In fact there's the arguement that it could be more survivable because of it's WWII era armor.

When I first joined the Service (don't ask how long ago), the Missouri was visiting San Diego. I visited and stood on the site where the Japanese surrender document was signed.

A couple of years later during Desert Storm I watched the Missouri and the Wisconsin on the firing line together!

Then about five years ago, while on vacation in Hawaii, I took my family to visit the "Mighty MO" at Pearl Harbor. So I'm definitely biased in favor of keeping and even reactivating them.

Modern technology works both ways... during Desert Storm BB's launched Tomahawk Cruise missles! If there's such a thing as rocket assisted artillery (there is), I'm sure there's miriads of things that could be done with the 16 inch projectiles - rocket assisted, gps guidance, you get my drift.


14 posted on 04/15/2005 3:43:35 AM PDT by Toadman (Good morning!)
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To: FreedomPoster
Precision guided munitions are great for pinpoint targets. Cluster munitions are great for area denial. A 16” salvo is great for taking out individual structures, bunkers, trench lines, tree lines, troops in the open … and scrambling the brains of any that might survive.
Air support is great for much of it – but with the exception of the Warthog the jets can only hang around for a few minutes, hit a target and go home to refuel.
37 posted on 04/15/2005 4:39:14 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: FreedomPoster

I beg to differ...Precision guided munitions DO NOT make BB's obsolete..Just ask the Kamikazes...Just ask yourself why 60 years after the advent of guided munitions and air power, which was supposed to make them redundant, those ships still came out of mothballs for three other wars. In fact, they might be the only ships afloat that can take that kind of pounding, but that's neither here nor there.

Ollie makes a very good point: BB's make excellent fire support ships for amphibious landings, even though the Marines haven't made one since 1950, it's still nice to have that capability, even in standoff mode. The Iraqis certainly didn't enjoy being on the receiving end of 16" shells either. At present, there are exactly zero ships available for direct fire support, that job being relegated to aircraft. Aircraft, while they can carry an enormous amount of firepower, cannot sustain it for long periods like a battleship can -- planes eventually have to land and refuel.

The knock on battleships, however, is that they are expensive to run and maintain, especially since most of the technology is vintage 1940's and you just can't get that kind of steel or ecpertise anymore -- which is why the Iowa was mothballed for good after it's turret explosion, the guns, and mounts could not be replaced.


62 posted on 04/15/2005 5:13:31 AM PDT by Wombat101 (Sanitized for YOUR protection....)
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