Europe, US set to fall to cheap Indian labour

Express India ^ | Thursday, April 14, 2005 | Harish Dugh

[Cronos]

There are numerous, cases of violence committed by upper caste christians in my state against their lower caste "brethren".

I don't believe that. Do you have links for this?

But I dont think anyone can claim that Christianity is a "solution" for solving the racial/caste inequity problem. Even if someone had brutally imposed Christianity or communism or whatever, on the entire people, caste system would still exist.

Christianity or Buddhism or even Islam is ONE solution for the caste problem. It's not a racial problem. Another solution is for the upper caste Hindus to get off their high horse and stop discriminating. Yes, it IS happening in some parts of India but not always. An example, Tamil BRahmins are still pretty arrogant about their supposed superiority. Those who face such discrimination will want to leave asap.

BRutally imposed Christianity? What are you talking about? THe Portuguese DID try to start that off in Goa but it failed abysmally, the people had the option of leaving and the Hindu and Muslime kingdoms in the neighborhood brought pressure on the Portuguese. All the conversions in Kerala were peaceful and over centuries right from St. Thomas. The Conversions in Goa were by and large peaceful except for the ONE failed instance I pointed out --> even the Church objected. The conversions in Karnataka, Maharashtra, the North-East etc. are peaceful and are NOT limited to the lower castes.

[Cronos]

Yeah, those guys were from IITs (Indian institutes of technology), probably quite famous for exporting brainy researchers to American grad schools ;)

It's not only your IIT guys -- the Indians learn more about history and other things than Brit students do. The English school system has gone down the tube -- it's become too socialist trying to make everyone pass and so its lowering the bar, making everyone equally dumb. India still keeps its near Edwardian school structure and so succeds.

[Cronos]

It shouldnt be, but in practice, it was imposed over indigenous peoples of latin America, polynesia, etc. through brute force and violence

Not completely true -- in Latin America, the native peoples never really converted until the Miracle of the Virgin of Guadelope. EVen now the church in Latin America is native born, with native traditions. Polynesia (mostly converted by Wesleyans) was a peaceful conversion.

[Cronos]

That's odd--there are contemporary accounts of Muslim violence against Hindus and others, even in India; as opposed to (say) Mother Teresa; and yet you single out Christianity as more worthy of blame. Curiouser and curiouser...

Exactly. The Brits never tried to convert everyone by force like the Muslimes did. In fact most Indians I speak to are pretty ok with Christianity and Christians, but they do abhore Muslimes and Islamm

[desidude_in_us]

IITs still dont have enough funding like US schools.. thats why most of their undergrad students end up here, if they want to do research.

I came to Tamu as its got good research oppurtunities, even though I've to pay in order to do research in this school (on account of being a foreigner).

Yes, some britishers were against slavery, but usually exploited natives and esp africans when it suited their interests.. anyway, its evident they did it more because they thought they found monetary benefits from it, not from/against any religious scruples.

Surely, as for christianity, its current practitioners arent as intolerant as Islamic ones.. so, chill.

[desidude_in_us]

I don't believe that. Do you have links for this?

Just like most folks in this group, you seem to believe only what you want to believe, mi amigo.

Unfortunately, this is reality

"The church in India is a dalit (lowest caste) church, because 70% of India’s 25 million Christians are dalits. Although dalits form the majority in all these churches, their place and influence in these churches is minimal or even insignificant. Their presence is totally eclipsed by the power of the upper-caste Christians who are only 30% of the Christian population. This is all the more true in the case of the Catholic Church where such discrimination is strongly felt."

Christianity or Buddhism or even Islam is ONE solution for the caste problem. It's not a racial problem. Another solution is for the upper caste Hindus to get off their high horse and stop discriminating. Yes, it IS happening in some parts of India but not always. An example, Tamil BRahmins are still pretty arrogant about their supposed superiority. Those who face such discrimination will want to leave asap.

I hope you have enough common sense to deduce that converting to another religion hasnt solved the caste problem at all.. as is evidenced by the plight of dalit christians.

And c'mon, why have dual standards for upper caste hindus and white christians ??

do we still dont see many white fathers happy enough to encourage their daughters to marry black folks in this country or all over western europe, simply because they are christian ?

Is open mindedness the norm in all white, christian households, for them to act with a holier-than-thou attitude and give out different standards compared to upper caste hindus ?

BTW, by castigating all Tamil Brahmins as the apparent scourge of hindu society, as "arrogant", and proponents of "caste discrimination" you are merely toeing the line of reverse racism.

Just like Malcolm X and other such fools naivishly blurted out that all whites were racists and evil people.

And no, I'm not a Tamil Brahmin.

Brutally imposed Christianity? What are you talking about? THe Portuguese DID try to start that off in Goa but it failed abysmally, the people had the option of leaving and the Hindu and Muslime kingdoms in the neighborhood brought pressure on the Portuguese.

Ohh well, now comes another holocaust denier. Maybe native Americans were probably tickled with peacock feathers till they submitted to Christianity, eh ??? Even Pope John Paul II apologized for what they did to native Americans during Spanish Inquisitions, perhaps some of the most sickening tortures ever perpetrated on fellow human beings (ref:http://www.rotten.com/library/history/inquisition/).

Of course, I dont have any intention to blame christianity in itself for these atrocities, but apparently there were many issues in the past where christianity in itself was subverted for political and societal manipulations by certain unscrupulous elements.

As for the portuguese in goa, its not straight forward.. they were kinda tolerant, but not as tolerant as a christian minority would be in a hindu majority country/ kingdom. Afterall, they razed down lots of temples and built churches over them. Thats something most Hindus would never do to people of any other faith (until 1992).

Here is a brief on Goan history.

" With the influx of the Portuguese, came their religion. Under Albuquerque's rule commerce was the primary factor governing Portuguese policy in India. As a result, the Portuguese were initially quite tolerant of the hindu religion (although not as tolerant of the muslims). From 1540 onwards, under the influence of the Counter Revolution in Europe and with the arrival of the Inquisition in Goa, Portugal's liberal policy towards the hindus was reversed. Many hindu temples were razed and churches built on them; while the few muslims that were there were dispersed or disposed of. "

[desidude_in_us]

The English school system has gone down the tube -- it's become too socialist trying to make everyone pass and so its lowering the bar, making everyone equally dumb. India still keeps its near Edwardian school structure and so succeds.

Indian school system is hyper lousy.. it does stifle creativity to a major extent. People only succeed because they are good at handling tremendous academic pressure.

[desidude_in_us]

Of course, Brits are not despised in modern India.. even most Indian christians are quite decent people. But those christians, who are using the bogey of caste system to further proselytization, (even though they themselves indulge in caste discrimination discreetyly) solely in order to discredit Indian culture, are scummy folks.

[CarrotAndStick]

War refugees? That's an interesting description, especially since they were persecuted far BEFORE any war.