Replies

"...all those who don't accept Christ are still under the Law."

What do you call a christian that obeys the Law that Chirst paid the penalty for? Unchristian? That seems pretty odd and judgmental.

"So go get circumcised, you heathen!"

I know you said that in jest. To be honestt, I was circumcised though I was born into an agnostic family (seems the medical establishment nipped all the guys back in the day because uncircumcised males have this problem with schmegma that may cause serious health problems. That is until some homosexuals began suing the hospitals). Dr. Drew from Loveline believes that uncircumcision is a root cause of much sexual problems and disease, and actually suggests adult males consider circumcision, though it is not a minor surgical procedure. I don't think Dr. Drew is anything but an agnostic or atheist. I know Adam Carolla is an atheist.

"While this sounds easy, the Christians must also follow the Holy Spirit --- what I call the gut feeling of right and wrong --- which is sometimes quite a bit harder than the Law."

A gut feeling of right or wrong. Gut feeling? Like the feeling you get when you want to buy onion rings, you buy them, and your gut tells you it was wrong. Some call that gas.

Seems that simple people would just look up the law. "Should I lay with my neighbor's dog? Says here in Leviticus that I shouldn't. But I'm not under that law...and I'm under grace." Boom. Instant perv but a saved perv? It has to be more complicated than a gut feeling. That leaves much room for interpretation.

"...as a Christian one must strive to NOT to sin. You will fail. So repent and try again. With God's help you will do better..."

Define sin. A standard pocket dictionary in front of me says that sin is breaking the law. Actually, it says willful breaking of the law, which means that the lawbreaker knows the law and reasons he will break it.

Repent? What is the definition of repent? Dictionary says it is to feel sorrow, feel negligent about responsibility, and change your mind. Change demands not doing the sin. Sin, as we learned from the dictionary, is breaking law. Therefore, changing your mind to not sin means obeying. Obeying what? Law or gut feelings which could easily pass (forgive me) for gas, or subconscious delusion? Seems that the dictionary says you should obey the law. But if you obey the law are you are law keeper, or a legalist. If I refuse to deal drugs, I suppose I'm being a legalist.

It seems to me, as an outsider looking into your world, that you want to obey God and Christ as a christian. But you don't want to obey everything which you deposit as "the law done away." So you say Christ did away with the Law, which you don't really mean, because if Christ did away with the Law, then this all a moot exercise in circle jerking=no law=no need for savior=no savior=nothingness. And I know from your posted response, that you don't mean that.

So what are the exact laws you don't want to be under? You seem to gravitate toward dietary laws. I assume you love monkey brains, who doesn't? Or blowfish? Octapus fried in its ink? Horse bladder? Pigs feet? Frogs legs? Slugs? Balls of a rhino? Fried cat meat in moo goo gai pan? Does God say its wrong? From a scientific standpoint, are the dietary laws smart or absolutely stupid. Because if God made these laws and then says they're stupid, that makes God look foolish, or better still God looks like John Kerry, "I said it, then I took it back."

You mention cleaning laws. Why don't you want to be clean? Or are you talking about showing yourself to the priest if you have a pussing boil? Perhaps you don't like the one about remaining in a segragated quarentee because you have a highly contageous disease? Oh wait, you want to have sex when you are or your wife is in menses. Well, I guess breaking these laws could cause problems and diseases down the road that you may or may not blame God for allowing. Seems like God is covering all the bases, like anyone writing up a good contract. I guess it's like an ancient national health plan. But it seems like these laws are still taught today in medical schools too. Not sure where you're driving at.

Votives, offerings, and let's see... new moons, sabbath day, and days like Purum, Yom Kippur, Succouth, and Rosh Hoshanah. Can't keep those days because they are old covenant? Since you are not under the Law, I assume you don't keep Easter, Christmas, or St John the Baptist Day either? It's all unnecessary for salvation. I bet you work every day of the week and never attend church. Because God's not interested in false pretenses of religion. It's what is in the heart that counts. Church is for those pretentious altar boys and women trying to look their best. It's all a glamour show and wannabe priests.

Why do we need anything, particularly priests, popes, or even this Baptist pastor when God is in our hearts and everywhere. And why continue the charade of obedience if the Law is done away. Seems hypocritical and destructive to our delicate senses. Which gets back to my other post. No law=no savior=no need to live according to a particular religion=no nothing.

Unless we should obey. I mean think about it, if we are required to obey the law we broke and were pardon from breaking (prisoners call this reformed) then this whole salvation idea makes more logical sense.

Either way, the law in the Bible, as it is written, is the mind of God. If we figured out that God exists then all we must figure is if the mind of God should be obeyed or ignored. Seems like a simple plug in.

Gosh, lots of questions here. I'll probably skip a few, just because it would literally take years and probably wisdom beyond what little I have. I'll try and answer the best I can.

1. " What do you call a christian that obeys the Law that Chirst paid the penalty for?"

Redundant. Good hearted, perhaps. Perhaps the following the Holy Spirit. In seriousness, basically 3/4 the "letters" section of the New Testament concern these issues.

Back in the early church, there was a huge division between the "Jews for Jesus" (like me, I guess) who were with Peter and Paul (who, while he was what we would now call an Orthodox Jew and actually hired by Rome to hunt down and kill Christians became the apostle to the Gentiles).

The big issues were dietary and certain rituals, chiefly circumcision.

Paul and Peter (acting IMHO opionion) agreed that what mattered was following Chirst, loving one another, and doing whatever one did as if you did it for God.

Hence, while opinions could differ on things like circumcision or whatnot ---- the key was one's heart and purpose.

2. So, non-Christians are under the Law.

That meant just what it said. (Of course, you are in a non-temple period, so the really weird ritual sacrifices at Passover are moot until the Temple is rebuilt there on the Western Wall.)

On the topic, Drew is a nutcase. I was circumcised in a traditional Bris. Everything works just fine.

3. Complaints that the Holy Spirit concept is vague.

Perhaps. The concept has certainly been abused. And one should look to the Law --- in that the Holy Spirit will NEVER tell one to do something against the Law --- but you'd know if you become a Christian.

I have considered things that are against the Holy Spirit (cheating on taxes for example), and I have felt the sickness and separation from God. It's subtle; but subtle like a sledgehammer --- in things both large and small.

It is the most valuable guide and check of my life.

"4. Define sin"

Big concept. Hence the vagueness of the Holy Spirit, I guess. Sin is anything that brings us from the absence of God. It just depends. You know what is right and wrong. The wrong is sin.

And sin is sometimes not in the Bible. I can't think of any example, but Christ repeatedly criticised legal scholars for things that were technically "OK" under the law --- but clearly wrong. That is sin.

And sometimes things that would appear to be sin --- such as healing a blind man on the Sabbath (which is "work") --- are not sin because the Sabbath is for man.

Saying what is "sin" is very hard. I could not do it without the Holy Spirit.

5. "Repent"

It's a change of heart. It's an acknowledgement that we all fall short. It's a desire to do better. You know this.

6. "So what are the exact laws you don't want to be under? You seem to gravitate toward dietary laws."

This is hard, as well. I "gravitated" to the dietary laws because your original example was a cloven animal (a pig) under Leviticus.

The "laws" that don't have to be followed by Christians are laregely the "purity" laws related to Temple worship and Exodus when God physcially appeared in the Holy-of-Holies and certain other purity laws related to diet.

This is --- for someone completely unfamiliar with the issue -- somewhate represented in "Raiders of the Lost Ark" the literal ark wher the 10 commandments were located. God physically appeared.

There were obscure and strict requirements of purity for approaching God in that circumstance.

To oversimplify, one became pure by strict bathing and other rituals.

Christians, by being baptised in the blood of Christ, no longer need such purification.

Hence, no worry about touching pigs.

7. "Which laws, part II."

The second group of laws relate to Passover. Passover celebrates the passing over of the angel of death in Egypt. Certan rituals are expected because this was a very SERIOUS angel, largely the yearly sacrifice of a perfect lamb.

Again, Christ was the perfect Passover sacrifice. So perfect He defeated death. Hence, Easter.

8. "Which laws, part III --- seems to me, if I deal drugs, I would be a legalist"

There is nothing wrong with looking to the law. It is very informative.

And, of course, your gut knows that rotting people's brains with drugs is wrong --- I don't mistake that with "gas" --- and you don't, either.

9. "I assume you don't keep Easter, Christmas, or St John the Baptist Day either? It's all unnecessary for salvation. . "

Nonsense! Sure, one could go to heaven ignoring all of those. (I don't even know what St. John's day is?!)

But who would want to?! Jesus is my FRIEND. I love Him. Yes, there very well be nothing in it for me to celebrate His birthday, His Death, or His resurrection.

But I do because He changed my heart. I was a mean prick who cared for no one but myself before I met Him. I was in the Army and laughed as I killed Iraqis (AH-64A pilot, Desert Strom/Shield). I thought it was blast. Now I realize that God loves (loved?) each one of them as much, if not more, than me.

Yet, I probably sent them to Hell. It bothers me quite a bit.

10. "If we figured out that God exists then all we must figure is if the mind of God should be obeyed or ignored. Seems like a simple plug in."

Just remember Moses asked God who/what/where/why/how and all Moses got back was "I am."

God IS. Not a satisfying answer, to me either.

But recall Job (I think) who --- after being dumped on by God for no good reason asked --- why? And he got back the answer, "Where were you when I created the heavens and the earth?"

In short, don't try to hard to figure God out. God spoke the universe into exisence. You and me are a speck on the speck of a speck of a little mudball planet.