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To: editor-surveyor

The issue is scriptural truth. Earning your salvation is not possible, and anyone who believes that their salvation is due to their works, or the words or actions of another human, is deceived, and definately headed to hell.




I can't see how that's true.

One of my grandmaws was a God-Fearing woman, but didn't belong to any church or organized religion. Yet, you couldn't meet a kinder or more giving woman. Nor a woman who did more for her family, her friends, her community, or the charities she worked with the last 20 years of her life after grandpaw had died.

If that woman is in Hell, and not Heaven, then I'll take Hell any day of the rest of eternity!!

Personally, I don't think "Man" knows what God wants. Personally, I think the bible is a very good book written by men with very good intentions...I don't believe it's the literal word of God. But if others do, then that's fine with me. Religion is a very good thing and has helped our society grow out a savage existance. It's a net positive for society...By a LONG shot!


500 posted on 04/14/2005 6:25:52 PM PDT by Dean Baker (Two wrongs may not make a right, but three lefts do.)
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To: Dean Baker
God-Fearing woman,

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom

501 posted on 04/14/2005 6:27:47 PM PDT by D Edmund Joaquin (Mayor of Jesusland)
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To: Dean Baker

The issue is not whether your grandma was a member of an organized religion, but whether her "God fearing" meant that she has accepted Jesus. If she was truly God fearing then she probably had. And she probably wasn't working like she did, to earn her way into heaven, she was probably working because she loved God and she loved people.

If she hadn't accepted Jesus, all those works won't save her and they are in vain. But I suspect that she had accepted Jesus.

Jesus said it was the ones that loved Him that would obey Him. Paul said that the way we come to know what love is, is that God first loved us. So do you see the order.

God loved us first while we were yet sinners.
He provided His son to redeem us while we were yet sinners.
Because God loved us, we learn what love is.
Because God loved us, we develop the capacity to love back and to love others.
That love results in obedience to God and produces good works.

Jesus said that on judgement days there would be preachers who pointed to their works and Jesus would say "I never knew you". And Jesus would list the works of the righteous and they would say, "When did we do that Lord?"

It's the relationship that's key. Without that, all the works in the world are in vain.


523 posted on 04/14/2005 7:07:55 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Dean Baker
You're lost!

You're in my prayers. God's word is all there is, and it is fully inspired. Read it, and believe it.

603 posted on 04/14/2005 9:49:11 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The Lord has given us President Bush; let's now turn this nation back to him)
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