Posted on 04/13/2005 11:42:59 AM PDT by LibWhacker
Our founding documents state the belief that God gave us certain unalienable rights. Yes or no?
Yes that one document says that, it's just not scriptural.
You don't believe God created man to be free?
Absolutely not since it states right in the NT that we are all slaved either to Jesus or to sin. God implemented proper rules for having slaves for Israel. God saved Israel from the bondage of Egypt as a picture of Christian salvation. But where was Israel's God given right to be free for those 430 "to the day" years?
The government should make no money off these small odd jobs when the same people are paying a lion's share of taxes on their main sources of incomes. Not to mention taxes on materials, fuel, and other various taxes. I say we should commend them, not punish them. They are keeping some of the blood supply away from our cancerous tumor of a government.
You can't be arguing that God created us to be slaves to sin? A 'slave to Christ' is free, no man is his master. What our founding fathers stated is perfectly in line with this.
If you read it again you will see it is a dichotomy. We are slaves either way but that is spiritual. Regarding human servitude, there are abolutely no biblical promises of freedom. In fact it says if you are a slave, don't worry about it. In the scheme of eternity, being a slave to someone on earth doesn't even register.
For awhile, govt. pretty well operated in those constraints, yet always testing the boundaries. Around 1914, they decided to tax, we the people. Tarifs on "strangers" were out.
"Mat 17:25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?"
"Mat 17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free."
The free people were no longer free. The worthless servant (breaking the contract with restraints of limited govt. and declaring himself king)assured the no longer free people that it was temporary. This brings us to where we are today.
Interesting rant but pretty off the topic of the unscripturality of the statement "endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, ie life, liberty and the persuit of happiness".
No so. The topic is who is caesar. Our govt. have gone out of bounds, we are responsible.
God created our govt., according to this. Man has perverted it. Is that simple enough?
And good luck to them in getting the internet sites to agree to report winnings, seeing as how they're all currently located offshore.
I always interpreted the "render unto Caesar" to mean obey the government's laws as long as they don't conflict with God's law.
As for the slave thing, that's a bit more complicated, but not by much -- after all he did bring the Israelites out of Egypt. The idea was not that God or Jesus or even Paul thought slavery was just fine and dandy, but that the goal of becoming free from slavery (or any OTHER goal) should never supercede the spreading of the gospel.
It's conceivable that Jesus would want Slave X to stay under Master Y instead of starting a slave revolt because he wants slave X to preach the gospel and convert Master Y to Christianity who would then, among other good things, free his slaves voluntarily without bloodshed being necessary, assuming this was possible under the law of the land in question.
God may have other inscrutible reasons for wanting this or that slave or group of slaves to stay enslaved, the point being not that God is pro-slavery but that his mission/role for each individual and each nation comes before any political or social goals an individual or nation might believe in.
I wonder how many times a day two freepers have two different debates AT each other. I thought we were debating whether or not God had given us inalienable right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness.
Quite simple, wrong but simple.
Refute it.
Refute it!? I quote it all the time. It's a beautiful truth about how God is soverign over governments. That's why we are supposed to obey and pray for our governments. A lot of Freepers have a hard time with that and the fact that all governments were Created by Him and For Him. And yes Man screws up everything that he touches but that doesn't remove our responsibility to our God given rulers.
WE are the rulers. Why is that so hard to understand?
It's easy to understand, it's just wrong. Let's talk specifics. If you are right about prostitution being bad, can you go make it illegal? If you are right about socialism being wrong, can you get rid of it? If the majority is wrong about someone being guilty is he going to be found innocent?
What is a ruler? King David and President are rulers. We are not. People have always had imput even over Kings and dictators, but that doesn't mean they are their own rulers.
Let me put it this way. We are ultimately responsible. We are in charge.
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