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To: mike182d
Are Ted Bundy's parents responsible for the death of all those women? I mean, where did Ted Bundy come from?

Ted Bundy's parents were neither omniscient nor omnipotent. If they were, then of course they were responsible for the consequences when they willfully created someone they knew would do that.

That's a great analogy actually. Good job!

People are responsible for their own actions

Is god responsible for his own actions?

157 posted on 04/11/2005 12:46:39 PM PDT by AntiGuv (™)
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To: AntiGuv

If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is: Infinite. --William Blake


159 posted on 04/11/2005 12:48:09 PM PDT by blakep
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To: AntiGuv
Ted Bundy's parents were neither omniscient nor omnipotent.

It appears you are hung up on the premise that God is omniscient and I think it needs some clarification.

First, by definition, to know something, the thing known must be true and only that which is "true" can be known. You cannot "know" something that is false nor can you "know" something that is only probable or hypothetical. Thus, prior to our creation, we exist as mere potentiality and probability in the mind of God. It cannot be "true" that Michael Jordan is a basketball player prior to him even existing; that would be utter nonsense. So it is with us. None of my current state of affiars were true prior to my existence and thus it is not the case that it was possible for such affairs to be known prior to my existing as they were not true.

Secondly, let us say I am watching a movie that I have already seen before. I know what is going to happen. However, my knowing what is going to happen has no affect on it actually happening in the movie. Likewise, God's knowing that something is going to happen isn't the cause of it happening.

With the above stated, how is it, then, that the God of classical theism knows the future after what I've stated?

Time is finite, it has a beginning and an end. The God of classical theism is the cause of time's creation and thus necessarily exists "outside" of time. For such a being, the whole of time is but a single moment in His mind. Therefore...the reason why God knows what I am going to do in the next five minutes is because it is true that I am in fact going to do those things and God is privy to this information as he has already seen it happen, like the movie in my second point.

As I am not a transcendent, omniscient, being I cannot say with any certainty that this is exactly how it works, but its the best - and most concise - way I can explain it with simple deductions.
175 posted on 04/11/2005 1:02:50 PM PDT by mike182d ("Let fly the white flag of war." - Zapp Brannigan)
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