[AntiGuv]

It is not rational to believe that anything - a god by example - created itself or was non-created. I already said arguments that gods exist are irrational or irrelevant of their own accord, so what's your point?

[mike182d]

It is not rational to believe that anything - a god by example - created itself or was non-created. I already said arguments that gods exist are irrational or irrelevant of their own accord, so what's your point?

I was speaking of the universe as a whole. Time itself is finite and thus has a beginning. Since time, and the whole of the universe has a beginning, it means that, necessarily, there was a point at which they did not exist. Yet, you claim that it is completely logical to believe that this non-existant thing created itself? A thing void of intelligence in its own right, nonetheless?

How is this more "logical" that believing in a necessary being?