Just because the impeached *Bubba made the trip, doesn't make him a saint - does it? (Heaven help us - and I really mean it...)
Posted on 04/08/2005 7:21:11 PM PDT by LibWhacker
Apr. 8, 2005 - With presidents and kings looking on, hundreds of thousands of pilgrims in St. Peter's Square sang, applauded and chanted for the church to declare John Paul II a saint as the pope was laid to rest Friday in an unprecedented gathering of the mighty and the meek.
John Paul, who spread his message of peace to all corners of the planet, was buried among his predecessors back to the apostle Peter while tens of millions followed the funeral rites in their homes, in overflowing churches and on giant television screens set up in fields, sports stadiums and town squares.
In St. Peter's Square, at the center of it all, the book of the Gospels lay on a simple cypress coffin, adorned with a cross and an "M" for the Virgin Mary. A brisk wind lifted the book's pages and rippled the red vestments of cardinals, along with the turbans, fezzes and yarmulkes worn by leaders of other faiths touched by the global pope.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, a confidant of the pope and a possible successor, delivered a homily that traced John Paul's path from a factory worker in Nazi-occupied Poland to the leader of the world's 1 billion Catholics.
"Our hearts are full of sadness, yet at the same time of joyful hope and profound gratitude," Ratzinger said. Usually unflappable, the German-born cardinal choked with emotion. "Santo! Santo!" the crowd responded, waving banners reading "Santo Subito" "Immediate Sainthood."
"I'm here not only to pray for him, but also to pray to him, because I believe he's a saint," said Therese Ivers, 24, of Ventura, Calif., holding high an American flag in the middle of the crowd on the broad Via della Conciliazione, which stretches from St. Peter's Square to the Tiber River.
The dignitaries from 138 countries reflected the extraordinary mix of faiths and cultures that John Paul courted during his 26-year papacy: Orthodox bishops in long black robes, Jews in yarmulkes, Arabs in checkered head scarves, Central Asians in lambskin caps and Western political leaders in dark suits.
In a gesture the pope would certainly have applauded, Israeli President Moshe Katsav said he shook hands and chatted briefly with the leaders of his country's archenemies, Syria and Iran.
Bells tolled as the delegations took their places on red-cushioned wooden seats. President Bush, accompanied by his predecessors Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush, was the first American president to attend a papal funeral.
The 2 1/2-hour Mass began with the Vatican's Sistine Choir singing the Gregorian chant, "Grant Him Eternal Rest, O Lord."
Ratzinger, dean of the College of Cardinals, said John Paul was a "priest to the last" who offered his life for God and his flock, "especially amid the sufferings of his final months." He was interrupted by applause at least 10 times.
The Mass ended with cardinals, dignitaries and pilgrims standing and singing: "May the angels accompany you into heaven, may the martyrs welcome you when you arrive, and lead you to Holy Jerusalem."
Twelve white-gloved pallbearers carried the coffin back into St. Peter's Basilica, where it was nested inside a second casket of zinc and a third of walnut.
In a spontaneous gesture of respect, cardinals standing along the aisles removed their "zucchettos," or skull caps as the coffin went by, according to Washington Cardinal Theodore McCarrick. "It was the last tribute to the Holy Father," he said.
In a grotto beneath the basilica, the casket was lowered into the ground in a plot inside a small chapel, between the tombs of two women: Queen Christina of Sweden and Queen Carlotta of Cyprus, said a senior Vatican official who attended the ceremony.
"Lord, grant him eternal rest, and may perpetual light shine upon him," said Cardinal Eduardo Martinez Somalo, who performed the private service.
The Vatican grottoes cramped, narrow passageways below the existing basilica hold the remains of popes of centuries past, including the tomb traditionally believed to hold those of the apostle Peter, the first pope. Royals and the Roman Emperor Otto II are also buried there.
Papal spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said the Vatican would announce in a few days when the grottoes would be reopened to the public. Keeping them closed was a way of clearing the city of the throngs of pilgrims.
A drizzle began to fall Friday afternoon as exhausted travelers with overstuffed backpacks trudged toward bus and train stations. Poles whose 24-hour trips to Rome had ended only hours earlier got back in their cars for the long drive home.
During the ceremony, at least 300,000 people who camped out overnight on chilly streets filled St. Peter's Square and spilled out onto the Via della Conciliazione. Millions more watched on giant video screens set up across Rome, from university campuses to the Circus Maximus, where ancient Romans held chariot races centuries before Christianity was born.
Funerals in the last century for Mohandas Gandhi of India, Mao Zedong of China and Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini of Iran drew millions, too, but they lacked the presence of leaders from so many nations.
The Israeli president said his handshake with Syrian President Bashar Assad came at the point in the service when members of the congregation "exchange the peace." Britain's Prince Charles drew criticism from two European Union legislators for shaking hands at that same moment with Zimbabwe's President Robert Mugabe, whose government is reviled internationally.
Despite the crowd's size Friday, there were few disturbances, and strangers shared food, water and umbrellas for shade in an outpouring of kindness that honored John Paul's message. When pilgrims broke out into song, others joined the hymns in different languages.
"We are the generation of John Paul II," said Mara Poole, a 27-year-old housewife from St. Paul, Minn., tears streaming down her face.
Hundreds of thousands of Poles who came for the funeral waved their red-and-white national flag. Some carried banners with the logo of "Solidarity," the Polish labor movement the pope supported in his confrontations with communism.
"He was all people's father, especially for us, the Poles," said Dominika Bolechowska, 29, a teacher from the pope's favorite mountain town of Zakopane, who traveled 28 hours by bus and spent a night on the streets with her 2-year-old son.
Across Africa, Asia and the Americas, church bells tolled and millions of people gathered in open fields, sports stadiums, town squares and cathedrals to watch the funeral on large screens. Millions more mourned privately at home.
Live footage was beamed across the Middle East by the television station al-Jazeera, and Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs joined Roman Catholics in church services and prayers throughout Asia to honor the pope.
Rome itself, where an estimated 4 million pilgrims doubled the population, was at a standstill as extraordinary security measures went in place. Authorities banned vehicle traffic throughout the city and combat jets, anti-aircraft batteries and an AWACS surveillance plane enforced an order to close airspace.
Two hours after the funeral, two Italian F-16 fighter jets intercepted an executive plane heading to Rome that intelligence sources worried might be carrying a bomb, an Air Force spokesman said. No bomb was found. Authorities searched and cleared a second plane on the ground.
Naval ships patrolled both the Mediterranean coast and the Tiber near Vatican City, the tiny sovereign city-state encompassed by the Italian capital. Carabinieri armed with automatic rifles stood at virtually every major intersection, and snipers were posted on rooftops.
School was canceled in Rome, and government workers got the day off. Many stores were shuttered, with signs reading: "Closed for mourning in honor of His Sanctity John Paul II."
"The entire world is here," said Sister Claudira Ribeira Santos, a Brazilian nun. "John Paul managed to speak for all humanity in an era of wars and natural disasters, for peace and reconciliation. He tore down the walls of countries, of classes, of religions."
Oops...!
Don't there have to be a certain number of verifiable miracles before they can make him a saint?
Example: And what, pray tell, does that mean? Did I pray to you? No, I requested something from you.
Another example:'prithee', which you read in Shakespeare, a contraction of 'I pray thee', a polite request.
Her name is spelled T-e-r-e-s-a.
Way more pomp, ceremony, and adoration than is given to the Lord these days.
This is complete religious stupidity!
I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. With that obvious lack of charity, I doubt you'll be canonized anytime soon.
Just because the impeached *Bubba made the trip, doesn't make him a saint - does it? (Heaven help us - and I really mean it...)
I doubt that the person who said this would also claim that they "prayed" to their sister or neighbor when they ask them a question.
I'm willing to set aside your lack of charity to clarify the teachings of the Catholic Church. The church only recognizes saints as those known to be with God in heaven. It does not place you there.
>"I'm here not only to pray for him, but also to pray to him"
>Oops...!
How can we expect non-catholics to understand intercession when some catholics don't? sheeesh
miracle 1 - 84 years old, Parkinson's, the schedule he kept: it's a miracle he lasted as long as he did.
miracle 2 - stayed out of court after giving bernard "the Boston Wrangler" law sanctuary and a job.
Yesterday's local Nitwit News had a story about a woman from Bayonne, NJ who attributes her meeting JP2 last September with her malignant brain tumor just disappearing. Her Jewish doctor arranged with a priest he knows for the meeting (I think, I missed the first couple of moments of the story). Doc can't explain why the MRI shows an empty space where the tumor was and he was nearly speechless and can only call it miraculous. I have no idea how they are pursuing this regarding sainthood for JP2, if at all.
IN Daniel 7:18 it reads..But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever-yes for ever and ever.
The saints of God are those who receive the kingdom of God. It is not just a select few of the most "pious" believers according to mans standard. But rather they include all who believe and all those who will inherit the kingdom of God. If you look up the references of the word SAINTS in your concordance..you will see that the word saints denotes believers in general.
If you are a believer in Jesus Christ and have no other God's before him..and you accept the sacrifice of the cross..then you are a saint.
I was brought up a catholic and I was told to do my penance by standing before a statue of Mary and reciting Hail Mary's...seems that was the way to get rid of my sins....then I actually read the Bible and I found out that Jesus did it all...What a relief that was...to know that all I had to do was believe in HIM and confess my sins to the Father in heaven. Jesus did it all...He said "it is finished" on the cross...and I believe he finished it. I do not have to put on sack cloth and ashes and do penance for my sins. it is like saying oh BTW Jesus...I don't believe you got it right..so I will stand in front of this statue and recite these dry old prayers to a person not in the Godhead...and then my sins will be forgiven...Yeah right..that's just what God wants.
God has a better word for it...idolatry.
I also read that you were never to call anyone here on earth father...because there is but one Father and He is in heaven. Matthew 23:9...Go figure.
The second miracle was an Israeli leader shaking hands with the Syrian president and the Iranian president.
He's qualified :o)
A saint is any of the faithful who makes it to heaven. That we can agree on. Where we part company is your mistaken assumption that Catholics believe the Church has to proclaim one a saint in order for that person to get to heaven. NOT SO!!! Saints are canonized in order to provide inspiration and good examples for the faithful on earth. There are definitely more saints in heaven than the 400-odd that have been canonized by the Church. A cursory reading about canonization would reveal that to you, so please refrain from criticizing Catholics about doctrines you know nothing about.
Your understanding of penance is flawed, as well. Forgiveness of sins involves a confession of one's sins, and there is ample scriptural basis for that. It certainly does not consist merely of saying 'dry old prayers' in front of a statue that one worships as an idol.
I see that you threw in the old bugaboo about 'call no man Father' as well, just for kicks. How about 1 Cor 4:14-15, where Saint Paul tells the Corinthians my beloved children ... for I became your father in Christ Jesus through the Gospel? What about 1 Thess 2:11; As you know, we treated each one of you as a father treats his children, ... Or 1 Tim 1:1-2 Paul, an apostle of Christ ... to Timothy, my true child in faith? Or Titus 1:1-4; Paul, a slave of God and apostle of Jesus Christ ... to Titus, my true child in our common faith?
Try reading Mt 23:1-12 instead of just verse 9 out of context. Jesus is speaking figuratively to emphasize that all legitimate authority and truth ultimately come from God. Verse 8 says, As for you, do not be called 'Rabbi.' You have but one teacher, and you are all brothers. Does that mean we sin when we call someone 'teacher, or 'Doctor?' 'Doctor' is Latin for 'teacher,' you know.
St. Paul became the spiritual father of the Corinthians, the Thessalonians, Timothy, and Titus because he cooperated with God in giving them spiritual life, just as biological fathers cooperate with God in giving physical life. We Catholics call our priests 'father' because, like St. Paul, priests cooperate with God in giving spiritual life to their flocks by preaching the Gospel and administering the Sacraments.
It saddens me that so many Freepers choose to eat their own at this solemn time. But I suppose one's character is revealed when he has the opportunity to kick his brother when he is down. Mighty Christian of you.
The wonderful thing about the Bible is that it can be interpreted in so many different ways.
God blessed us all by putting John Paul II among us.
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