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Local Pastors Don't Necessarily Want Politics in Pulpit
Oklahoma Online ^ | April 8, 2005 | APRIL STONE

Posted on 04/08/2005 6:02:41 PM PDT by Scenic Sounds

Local clergy don't show the same support as U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn on legislation that would allow politics to be mentioned in church sermons without fear of losing tax-exempt status.

Many church leaders from the Cherokee County area are not in favor of "The Houses of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act," H.R. 235, which Coburn claims would help preserve "our freedom." Coburn expressed his strong support of the bill, written by U.S. Rep. Walter Jones, R-N.C., and said Americans are required "to defend the right of moral and spiritual leaders to speak out on issues of justice and morality without fear of coercion from their own government."

The current law, established in 1954, was proposed by Sen. Lyndon Johnson. It gives the Internal Revenue Service the right to punish a church if it explicitly endorses or opposes a political candidate. The IRS cannot destroy a church for breaking this law, but the church could lose its tax-exempt status.

But the government is not what local pastors are afraid of. Several of them chose not to comment publicly on the legislation, fearing the least little bit of coercion to their congregations. And besides, the opinions in their congregations vary.

"I'm not for it," said one local minister. "I firmly believe in the separation between church and state."

One pastor was willing to talk openly. He said that sometimes, preaching the word of God means recognizing evil when you see it.

"It is our job to point out evil, and if there is evil in the White House, then we must point it out," said Jared Schopper, pastor of Boudinot Baptist Church near Welling.

Schopper was born and raised in the Tahlequah area. A 1950 graduate of West Point Academy, he served a 32-year military career. His work as a pastor began when, as a young man, he went through a theology course, and today, he still considers himself "just a Bible student."

But Schopper doesn't see eye-to-eye with Coburn on this issue.

"I look upon this with the idea that political issues are not of prime importance; theological issues are," said Schopper. "Although I can't see a pastor sued for standing up for the protection of life, speaking against abortion."

Schopper said he would caution anyone against falling in line with a named party or candidate.

"When you turn our churches into a place to get votes, you have crossed the line. When it comes to being in the pocket of a candidate, it is disruptive to the unity of the church," said Schopper. "Your church, sir, was not founded to promote a political party, but to promote Jesus Christ."

He thinks there are enough moral and spiritual issues to deal with in his Sunday sermons, and many members of local congregations agree.

Tomi Bardell is a member of First Baptist Church in Tahlequah. She doesn't want to hear election campaigning from the pulpit.

"We hear enough about politics from the media all week long. [Church] is the one place you can go to hear God's word; I don't want to hear all that, too," said Bardell. "I think pretty much most of the others in the congregation would agree that we want to hear God's word."

Bardell said it is likely that some mention will be made during a sermon of a current event, which her pastor, Ron Rice, will tactfully present.

"There is a way to get around directly mentioning something. [Pastors] kind of talk about issues, but without mentioning names," said Bardell. "Even if Coburn is trying to promote this, I don't think any of the pastors would include politics in their sermons."

Karen Thompson left one church in the Tahlequah area last year when her pastor urged his congregation to vote for George W. Bush, though not from the pulpit.

"A lot of times preachers really aren't educated on political issues, so they have no business making judgments on them; they should stick with what they know," she said. "I feel the same way about politicians. I don't want to hear what they have to say about God, because to me that's almost blasphemy. 'Politicians and God' don't even sound right in the same sentence."

She mentioned Tom DeLay, who has ethical problems of his own but often denounces others on moral grounds.

Thompson said when pastors realize they've erred on political issues, sometimes it's too late to undo the damage.

"I understand that he [her former pastor] now says he regrets stumping for Bush, now that the whole truth about the war [in Iraq] is out," she said.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: 109th; churchandstate; freespeech; hr235; irs; pastor; pulpit; religiousfreedom; taxes
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Should churches lose their tax-exempt status for "preaching politics" during sermons?
1 posted on 04/08/2005 6:02:41 PM PDT by Scenic Sounds
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To: Scenic Sounds
If some pastors don't want to address issues of politics, then nobody is forcing them to do so!
2 posted on 04/08/2005 6:04:19 PM PDT by thoughtomator ("The Passion of the Opus" - 2 hours of a FReeper being crucified on his own self-pitying thread)
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To: thoughtomator

You got it. All they have to do is STFU. What could be easier?


3 posted on 04/08/2005 6:06:38 PM PDT by softwarecreator (Facts are to liberals as holy water is to vampires)
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To: Scenic Sounds
"I'm not for it," said one local minister. "I firmly believe in the separation between church and state."

Well, this law doesn't make you talk about politics. So what's the problem?

4 posted on 04/08/2005 6:08:42 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: thoughtomator; softwarecreator
If some pastors don't want to address issues of politics, then nobody is forcing them to do so!

No, but some pastors who do want to address issues of politics might feel that they are being forced to refrain from doing so in order losing the church's tax exemption.

5 posted on 04/08/2005 6:12:48 PM PDT by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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To: Scenic Sounds

"Congress shall make no law abridging freedom of speech..."


6 posted on 04/08/2005 6:15:37 PM PDT by thoughtomator ("The Passion of the Opus" - 2 hours of a FReeper being crucified on his own self-pitying thread)
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To: Scenic Sounds

oh fercryinoutloud!

who wrote this stuff?

Clearly they are selectivly quoting. At least i HOPE that members of the clergy are not so dense as to not know the difference in speech they are entitled to and speech they are forced to utter.

I tend to agrre that one ought be VERY careful to invoke politics from the pulpit (I'd get up and walk out f a churcvh where something like tax policy of spenidng more money on "X" was mentioned from the pulpit) however, this proposal restores to them their God-given rights and it's insane to say "here, take this right because I don't think I'll be needing it."


7 posted on 04/08/2005 6:17:37 PM PDT by WillRain ("Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.")
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To: Scenic Sounds
I think you mean "should [all] churches"...? We all know that _some_ have been doing it for years.
8 posted on 04/08/2005 6:18:54 PM PDT by solitas (So what if I support a platform that has fewer flaws than yours? 'Mystic' dual 500 G4's, OSX.3.7)
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To: Scenic Sounds
""Should churches lose their tax-exempt status for "preaching politics" during sermons?""


Everything is Politics and anything is political. Lydon B Johnson imposed that law because the churches didn't like him.
9 posted on 04/08/2005 6:19:52 PM PDT by LauraleeBraswell ( CONSERVATIVE FIRST-Republican second)
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To: Scenic Sounds
Should churches be tax exempt in the first place?
10 posted on 04/08/2005 6:20:07 PM PDT by July20
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To: thoughtomator
"Congress shall make no law abridging freedom of speech..."

It sounds good until you get to the Sixteenth Amendment. It's just the tax exemption that's at issue. ;-)

11 posted on 04/08/2005 6:20:35 PM PDT by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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To: Scenic Sounds

I guarantee you they had to search far and wide to find a few pastors to speak out against Coburn. Most of the Oklahoma population is for this bill and agrees with Coburn, we did just send him to the Senate. Don't believe this B.S., totally B.S.


12 posted on 04/08/2005 6:21:15 PM PDT by yellowdoghunter (The Terri issue is legally complicated, but not the moral issue. I want to be on the side of life.)
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To: Scenic Sounds
This article is nonsense. Conservative pastors are having to toe the line right now, because someone can always turn them in for being "political" when they preach what is really a moral issue (abortion, euthanasia, gay "marriage," etc.). Liberal pastors and churches get away with open politicking, so there's no problem on their end.

This bill allows freedom of speech without fear of government oppression or blackmail. Why would anyone be against that?

13 posted on 04/08/2005 6:46:16 PM PDT by scott7278 ("Please disperse...there is nothing to see here.")
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To: Scenic Sounds
It gives the Internal Revenue Service the right to punish a church if it explicitly endorses or opposes a political candidate.

Has this ever been enforced? Look at all the Rats who show up giving speeches at church? Look at all the tax-exempt status organizations (Planned Parenthood, various unions) that give money to campaigns. That shouldn't be.

But churches should be able to have a moral stance on an issue, even if it is considered "political", without the threat of reprisal. I'd love to see them go after the groups breaking the law already.

14 posted on 04/08/2005 6:49:25 PM PDT by lizma
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To: scott7278
This bill allows freedom of speech without fear of government oppression or blackmail. Why would anyone be against that?

Well, see, I don't know the answer to that question. I don't know what the argument is for limiting the tax-exemption to those churches which avoid politics.

Is it because politicians don't want too much criticism from the pulpit?

Or, is it because the IRS is concerned that that people who are really in the politics racket might throw in a little scripture in order to get a tax exemption?

I really don't know. I was hoping someone might explain it to me. ;-)

15 posted on 04/08/2005 6:52:26 PM PDT by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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To: Scenic Sounds

"A lot of times preachers really aren't educated on political issues, so they have no business making judgments on them; they should stick with what they know," she said. "I feel the same way about politicians. I don't want to hear what they have to say about God, because to me that's almost blasphemy. 'Politicians and God' don't even sound right in the same sentence."

"She mentioned Tom DeLay, who has ethical problems of his own but often denounces others on moral grounds. "


Wonder which 'preacher' told her that Tom Delay has ethical problems????? Could it be from the secular media altar???


16 posted on 04/08/2005 6:59:12 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts
Wonder which 'preacher' told her that Tom Delay has ethical problems????? Could it be from the secular media altar???

Poor Tom. It seems that everywhere I look, I see these attacks these days.

Multiple Choice Test

"It's always darkest just before . . .

I don't know the answer yet. ;-)

17 posted on 04/08/2005 7:06:15 PM PDT by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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To: Scenic Sounds

If my pastor were to preach too much politics, I'd probably want to have a sit-down with him.

And by preaching politics, I mean truly politically sappy stuff such as, "Vote Republican."


18 posted on 04/08/2005 7:08:42 PM PDT by k2blader (If suicide is immoral, then helping it happen, regardless of motivation, is also immoral.)
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To: k2blader

How about Christ told Peter to fish from the RIGHT side of the boat and Peter was not fishing for fish?????


19 posted on 04/08/2005 7:10:53 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: k2blader
Believe me, I hear you, k2. I do hear yoo. LOL ;-)
20 posted on 04/08/2005 7:11:31 PM PDT by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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