Posted on 04/08/2005 9:46:25 AM PDT by Alouette
Thought about sacrificing a paschal lamb this year? Many of the hundreds – perhaps more than a thousand including the women – who gathered Thursday night at the Western Wall to march a circle around the Temple Mount believe it can become a reality – if not this year in Jerusalem, next.
So do many of the hundreds who will gather on Sunday to demonstrate against the police decision to close the Temple Mount to Jews.
"Today all we want is the right to pray on the Temple Mount," said Rabbi Yishai Ba'avad, secretary of The Institute for the Establishment of the Temple. "But this is just the first stage to realizing every Jew's aspiration to see the Temple rebuilt and the sacrificial worship renewed."
Rabbi Yossi Peli of the Samarian settlement Yitzhar, said he organizes a Sivuv She'arim [march around the Temple Mount] every month to express Jewish yearning to pray on the Temple Mount, renew animal sacrifices and see the rebuilding of the Temple. "As soon as there is real Jewish leadership in Israel, one of the first decisions will be to rebuild the Temple," said Peli.
"I think the majority of people in Israel really want it deep down. If they weren't so addicted to their daily infusion of media junk from that little noisy box, they would awaken from their stupor and demand it," he added.
Similar thoughts were expressed by David Ivri, a follower of Rabbi Meir Kahane and one of the heads of Revava, an organization based in Tapuach that is spearheading a civil disobedience campaign against disengagement.
Revava attempted to organize a 10,000-strong mass Jewish prayer on the Temple Mount on Sunday – Rosh Chodesh Nissan. However, police prohibited the gathering.
Many leading religious Zionist rabbis are opposed to entering the Temple Mount citing halachic concerns. According to Halacha, all Jews are terminally defiled by the impurity of death [tumat met] as long as the cure to this condition – a Red Heifer burned to ashes and mixed with spring water – is unavailable. In this condition it is forbidden to enter the innermost parts of what was the Temple. Special maps must be used to navigate the Mount.
Even the more external parts of the Temple are off limits unless one immerses in a ritual bath before entering.
But most rabbis oppose entering the mount for theological, not halachic, motives. Sources close to Rabbi Avraham Shapira, perhaps the most important halachic authority among religious Zionist rabbis, say he insists on keeping the issue theoretical and persuades his students from actually entering the Temple Mount, although he has encouraged learning the laws involved with the Temple.
"Rabbi Shapira does not want to whip up messianic fervor," said one source.
Rabbi Ya'acov Ariel, chief rabbi of Ramat Gan, who was the religious Zionist camp's choice for chief rabbi of Israel against elected Chief Rabbi Yonah Metzger, said this generation is not yet ready.
"Renewing animal sacrifices and building the Temple depends on the spiritual level of the entire Jewish nation," said Ariel. "It makes no sense to talk about it at a time of glaring socioeconomic inequalities in Israeli society, at a time when Shabbat is openly desecrated and hametz [leavened bread] is served in public places.
"If there is no family sanctity, it is inconceivable that there can be a Temple," he said, explaining that unlike most commandments, those connected with the Temple are collective in nature. "Only when the majority of Jews living in Israel are observant and God-fearing can we begin to conceive of rebuilding the Temple."
Still, Ariel adamantly supports entering the Temple Mount to pray. So do the vast majority of the rabbis of the Council of Jewish Communities in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, expect for Rabbi Zalman Melamed and Rabbi Shlomo Aviner.
As Ariel put it, "we must not abandon the holiest place on earth for the Jewish people. It is a horrible injustice that a Jew cannot pray there".
There is a cabinet decision, dating back to August 1967, just a few months after the Western Wall was taken by the IDF, initiated by then-defense minister Moshe Dayan, prohibiting Jewish prayer on the Temple Mount. At the time the vast majority of rabbis, including religious Zionist rabbis, opposed prayer there.
But opinions are gradually changing. Rabbi David Dudkevitch, 43, rabbi of Yitzhar and considered the spiritual leader of the "hilltop youth", said that every Jew should strive to observe every one of the 613 biblical commands, including those connected with the building of the Temple.
"The fact that many Jews do not adhere to the Torah commandments should not stop me from trying to bring about the building of the Temple," said Dudkevitch during the march around the Temple Mount Thursday night.
The rebuilding of the Temple was a central tenet of religious Zionism from its very beginning. Over 150 years ago Rabbi Tzvi Kalisher, the forefather of religious Zionism, sparked a debate with two of the most important halachic opinions of his time, Rabbi Akiva Eiger and Rabbi Moshe Sofer [the Chatam Sofer], when he suggested purchasing the Temple Mount and renewing animal sacrifices.
Eiger and Sofer did not rule out the idea of renewing animal sacrifices. They merely pointed to a number of technicalities, including the difficulty of purchasing the Temple Mount from Ottoman authorities.
In fact, that is what foiled the plan. Both Asher Anshel Rothschild and Sir Moshe Montefiore, two of the most sympathetic Zionist supporters of the time, turned down the idea.
Nevertheless, many religious Jews point to this historic incident as proof that if not for fear of the political ramifications resulting from such a move, it would be possible to bring a Pessah sacrifice this year, and if not this year, perhaps next.
Along with ignorance and bigotry, you can add "hypocrisy" to that ugly head of yours.
I'm wondering how in the world I've become involved in a debate with pro-animal sacrifice people who consider themselves spiritually enlightened. The funny thing is that you may quite possibly be for real, and not my idiot friends trying to get a rise out of me by posing as cyber-loons.
That's what I get for thinking I've heard everything on FR.
If you people care to charge up a hill and sacrifice and animal, knock yourselves out. I think even the mostly humourless Moslems will get a good laugh out of it.
I 'll be with the "ignorant" Jews and Christians scratching my head.
Forgive my ignorance, but isn't the blue mosque on the Temple mount? Are these Rabbis saying that they want it tore down and destroyed?
I'm sure some of the objections come from adherents to PETAology, an offshoot of some Tikun Olum practitioners. I shame I can't hang around for the rest of the thread.
Huh?
"Take the mote from your own eye.."
LOL po. This is the only response I've ever been able to muster afer corresponding with ZC (PS).
He's a good hearted person with a decent mind who stubbornly insists on negotiating himself into some kind of abstract spiritual (and intellectual) orphanage.
It's not completely his fault, he's a former "Catholic" who had the unholy misfortune of being under the purview of Cardinal Law and the hell-on-earth known as the diocese of Boston. This is the well from which he draws his understanding of the faith.
He's given to throwing rocks at times, but he's somehow attached to us.
Hebrews chapter nine.
Yes, that's what I've gathered from reading your exchange.
I've personally known some Jewish people with whom I've had bad experiences. Some have even "stabbed me in the back". However, I don't paint all of them with that same brush. I'm sure most Jews are good, decent people.
Rabbi Ya'acov Ariel, chief rabbi of Ramat Gan, who was the religious Zionist camp's choice for chief rabbi of Israel against elected Chief Rabbi Yonah Metzger, said this generation is not yet ready.I would call that advocacy of theocratic socialism, myself."Renewing animal sacrifices and building the Temple depends on the spiritual level of the entire Jewish nation," said Ariel. "It makes no sense to talk about it at a time of glaring socioeconomic inequalities in Israeli society, at a time when Shabbat is openly desecrated and hametz [leavened bread] is served in public places
-Eric
Wow! In two sentences you trashed the beliefs of three religious groups, while absolving your own, of course.
I imagine given another sentence you could have added Hindus and Buddhists to the waste heap.
Are you a vegetarian? I only ask because of your seeming disgust with animal sacrifice. Does it bother you that the community often partook in consuming the sacrificed animal? Portions were earmarked for Cohanim (Priests), and for Levites who were supported in this fashion. Of course none of this holds a candle to human sacrifice or pain, if that's your thing.
Let me add that prayer preceded animal sacrifice, was supplanted by sacrifice only for those who could sojourn to the Temple, and remained the only means of worshipping once the Temple was destroyed.
Abraham instituted morning prayer, Yitchak afternoon prayer, and Yaakov evening prayer.
Finally, why is longing for denied access to one's holiest religious site a "fruitless battle?"
I think the "battle" here is a common one that takes place all over the world but is distressing to see on a conservative forum -- your equivalence of Jews and Muslims, and your condescension.
For the record, I don't want to obliterate Jews, although I'd like to see them converted. Just as I'd like to see the Aboriginies, Germans, Africans, Haitians, Japanese, Eskimos, Moslems, Hinuds and everyone else converted. You're all the same to me, a product of the Creator.
Sorry to prick your balloon, but most of the world doesn't view you as any more special than anyone else.
A summary of your position:
Rejection of Christianity: Spiritually enlightened.
Rejection of Judaism: Bigotry.
Animal sacrifice: Kool.
Anti-animal sacrifice: Genocidal tendancies.
Did you sniff oily rags when you were a child?
Several people on this thread have asked me to explain scripturally how the practice of animal sacrifice ended, when they know full well that it ended with Christ. Jews thought better of the practice as well... without Christ.
Christianity is not "supersessionism" of the old covenant. God didn't stop loving Jews when His Son died on the Passover.
You mentioned Constantine again. If you had even a limited knowledge of Constantine, you should know that he converted to Christianity and wasn't a "sun worshipper" or pagan (sic) when he ended persecution of Christians. Do you not know your subject matter or do you know the subject matter and yet intentionally distort the truth?
Most likely the former. After all it appears after your last post that you believe sacrificing lambs is somehow Christian.
"re-introduction of animal sacrifice (especially if done the way these "mount rushers" plan) is silly and defunct... possibly even primitive."
Secularist consider all religion "primitive." Secularist consider anything other than evolution to explain the origins of the universe "primitive." Secularists consider all ritual "primitive." Vegans consider carnivores "primitive."
These people at least have the benefit of consistency.
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