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To: cooper72

No, the modern understanding of "rights" came from a philosopher.

It's been in our gene's since day one of our existance. We deserve the right to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness.

To suggest that one man invented freedom is to also say that one man invented oppression. They have both been a part of us for enternity.

Besides, such a atheistic point of view about our Declaration of Independence and Constitution would suggest that

A: you don't have faith in who(what) the authors followed.

B: you feel that "rights" are subjective

AND

C: you feel that there is nothing that assures you have rights aside from that piece of paper that you have already expressed a lack of total trust in.

Rights are God given, and protected and held dear by those who acknowledge those rights.


11 posted on 04/05/2005 7:11:51 PM PDT by MacDorcha ("Do you want the e-mail copy or the fax?" "Just the fax, ma'am.")
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To: MacDorcha
No, the modern understanding of "rights" came from a philosopher.

If you want to think the modern understanding of "rights" has always been the case then, sir, you have no concept of history. The early greeks invented democracy, but no-one would say it was a modern democracy.

It's been in our gene's since day one of our existance. We deserve the right to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness.

That I'm afraid is nonsense. Again, you seem to think that your ideal of history is the actuality. Jean-Jacques Rousseau was the first person in History to talk of the modern concept of "rights" and (along with Thomas Paine) deeply influenced the American constitution and French Revolution. He was the first man in history, to dismiss the superiority of Monarchy over the individual man. There is no talk of "rights" in the Bible because the concept was not developed.

To suggest that one man invented freedom is to also say that one man invented oppression. They have both been a part of us for enternity.

I never said one man invented freedom. He was the first to espouse the concept that we would both understand of "rights" of the common man. If you can show me any earlier discussion, feel free, but you won't.

Besides, such a atheistic point of view about our Declaration of Independence and Constitution would suggest that A: you don't have faith in who(what) the authors followed. B: you feel that "rights" are subjective

I am not American so it is not my concern except in historical education, I don't have "faith" in normal men and as for "rights" being "subjective" I don't recall Jefferson giving any "rights" to his slaves or women, which I am sure you will disagree with, so his "subjective" view of rights would be different than ours.

C: you feel that there is nothing that assures you have rights aside from that piece of paper that you have already expressed a lack of total trust in. Rights are God given, and protected and held dear by those who acknowledge those rights.

I have said no such thing, so I don't understand why you made that up. As I said there is not ONE mention of "rights" in the Bible, so where are you getting your "faith" in rights. From men? In fact as far as the American Declaration of Independence is concerned, the main ideas came from Thomas Paine and not God or the Bible. If you don't believe me go on any American specialist website or speak to any American historian and they will agree.

"Man is born free but everywhere he is in chains." -- Rousseau, The Social Contract, 1762

18 posted on 04/06/2005 4:02:08 AM PDT by cooper72
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