Gospel of Judas back in spotlight after 20 centuries

Middle East Online ^ | 2005-03-30 | Patrick Baert

[longtermmemmory]

(s)a lo written unto the word that algore will win the 2000 election after the crucifiction. Only an evil republican can steal the election.(/s)

Seriously, history is repleat with forgeries and fakes. How many french churches claim to have the holy relic of the jesus' foreskin?

[bigsigh]

I think so. About as dead as our exchange. C-YA!

[Mark in the Old South]

Re: "The most important consideration for whether a NT book was inspired was that it had apostolic authority."

You must remember it need not have been a direct link to an Apostle but a credible and reliable one. Mark was not an Apostle but he was with Peter and most scholars suggest Peter's teachings was where Mark got the information for his Gospel. It is widely believed Mark did not write his Gospel until after Peter died but it is possible it was before.

Personally I believe it was before, and I think Peter read it and approved it but that is strictly conjecture on my part. Some suggest The Gospel of Mark was written about 50 AD and it its believed Peter was martyred about 66 AD. If correct that would give Peter plenty of time to see it and correct any error.

The Gospel of Thomas has no such advantage, nor age, nor validity.

[hosepipe]

[ Latin had no "J"s. That's why Pilate inscribed on the cross: Iesvs Nazarenvs Rex Ivdaeorvm Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Judeans. ]

Did too...
Pilate was educated.. mostly only romans spoke Latin.. the world (in them there parts) spoke koine greek.. so did Pilate so the "people" would understand him.. Most/many rabbis probably spoke latin, Greek and hebrew.. Iesus <- Greek for "Jesus".. more or less.. all the "J's" came during and after 313 ad when the Roman Catholic church was created.. d;-)

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***For some very interesting info on these matters and related topics, read the book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail". It's fascinating.***


I read it all the way through. It is the first book that I tossed in the trash after finishing. It is crap.

[Drawsing]

Judas betrayed Jesus by helping the Jewish religious leaders (accompanied by Roman soldiers) find him at a time and place where he would not be surrounded by a large multitude of his followers.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

**Read Eusebius. **
I agree. I have just finished his Ecclesiastical History for the second time.

I have also read the LOST BOOKS OF THE BIBLE and FORGOTTEN BOOKS OF EDEN. You can immediatly see the difference as to why these were NOT included in the bible.

One question about the GOSPEL OF THOMAS, did Mary become a man, as Jesus told Peter she would, after he preached to her?

[Tree of Liberty]

Here's a link to just about every non-cannonical book of which I've ever heard. Hopefully, you'll be able to see the inherent inconsistencies to be able to forensically combat any that might claim they are inspired works.

[Mark in the Old South]

Re: "...after 313 ad when the Roman Catholic church was created.."

Are you trying to start something.

The Roman Catholic Church was founded in 33AD. It took um a while to pick a name. It wasn't necessary until all the competition started to muscle in our monopoly. It was like the break up of Ma Bell. Yeah you have more choices but not necessarily better.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***The Gospel According to Thomas is a good example, it fits well into the synoptic gospels. ***

Not so! Peter became upset Mary was with them as she was not a man. Jesus tells Peter that he will teach Mary and she will become a man!

Did this first "sex change really take place?"

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

You didn't present facts. Only opinions.

Faith is a funny thing, isn't it?

Can you point me to the scientific proof that Jesus was the Son of God and was resurrected as told in the Bible?

I'd even settle for scientific proof that he lived.

No opinions, please. Just scientific proof.

[Mark in the Old South]

I have no idea. The Thomas gospel was ridiculous from the first page. I skimmed but never read it all the way through.

[AppyPappy]

Can you point me to the scientific proof that Jesus was the Son of God and was resurrected as told in the Bible?

I have proof. Otherwise I never would have left atheism. But you cannot prove something to someone if it happened 2000 years ago. They have to find it for themselves.

[eastsider]

The architect of the four-gospel canon we have today is Irenaeus of Lyons. Irenaeus' criterion of apostolic authority (that is, tracing the gospels back to the apostles (though as you correctly point out, that doesn't mean the apostles had to have penned the gospels themselves)) that he used to distinguish the canonical gospels from the gnostic gospels was essentially the same criterion that he used to distinguish the legitimate hierarchy from the gnostic hierarchs -- apostolic succession (that is, tracing the bishops back to the apostles). Without Irenaeus' second-century testimony, it's possible that the Gospel of John might not have been included in the canon of the NT.

[Matchett-PI]

"What are your opinions on these extra gospels? I have hear about them but never read them." ~ kingsurfer

You can find out a lot about the early heretics in the church by just going on google. For instance, one of the earliest heretics who lived at the time of the apostle John was Cerinthus. Here is the tip of the iceber of what we find on him, alone:

Web Results 1 - 10 of about 948 for early heretic cerinthus. (0.37 seconds)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=early+heretic+cerinthus&btnG=Google+Search

Early History of Millennium Teaching
... reign of a thousand years; who think, that is to say, with the heretic Cerinthus.
... But how did the early church regard the doctrine of Cerinthus ? ...
www.scionofzion.com/ehmt.htm - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

[djf]

I don't think so!

Well, it obviously frosts some folks here that it might be authentic, so I'm not gonna push it one way or another. But it is interesting that in the reference section (where it is cross referenced to the other gospels an books of the NT) there are no references to ACTS or anything later, since these are the Logia, or "sayings" of Jesus that makes sense, but IMHO it shows it is not obviously a fraud.

Many of these document intros talk about something called "Q", or "Quelle" en Francais, I am unsure exactly what all of it means.

I imagine there is stuff in the Vatican that could clear alot of this up, but we'll never see it...

[KansasConservative1]

"We have just received the results of carbon dating: the text is older than we thought and dates back to a period between the beginning of the third and fourth centuries," foundation director Mario Jean Roberty said."


300-400 AD

"No one can clearly state that Judas wrote it himself,"

Unless the dude did not kill himself AND lived to be 300-400 years old, I can bet that he did not write it.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Can you point me to the scientific proof that Jesus was the Son of God and was resurrected as told in the Bible? ***

Can you prove to me that Julius Caesar was a real person and not the creation of some fevered imagination? Maybe someone faked the tales and others then added him to the scrolls of histories. Maybe others made statues of what he "Might" have looked like.

[aomagrat]

Judas' suicide note?

Or maybe his Opus?

[cinives]

LOL good point !