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Hey, in America both men and women are "allowed to drive", and to do so you must have a license from the state. So, what is it you are saying?

It is very simple. Here the power is given from the people to the state, not the other way around. Under Islamic Law women are second class citizens and have no rights unless they are given to them. Even then, those rights are given sparingly and usually through a proxy. Much like the rights of children in our society.

What I am saying/was commenting on is how people will justify themselves by saying how good other people have it under their control. They will point to things such as the rights they allow them to have, or how generous they are when it comes to things like divorce, child support etc.. All the time ignoring the obvious fact that those Women, Jews, Christian etc.. have no real rights.

In my original example of southern slave holders, the slave holders would point to the idea that those under their control had it great because those people would otherwise be unable to take care of themselves. Of course, they were conveniently ignoring the fact that those same people were systematically denied the education, opportunities, and access to resources under such a system to be able to take care of themselves.

The basic underlying principle was that the slaves were inferior and were lucky to be treated so well. We can argue this till were are all blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is that women in the Middle East are faced with exactly the same paradox.

What you are talking about is not "permission to drive", but "rule by the consent of the governed".

Look, this same sort of dispute came up when we had our discussions of the special cameras to catch red-light runners. There were people in here who were positively certain they should be allowed to run redlights since it was a Natural Right (and every other argument).

The point is that to stay on topic a reference to who may drive vehicles on the public roads probably isn't going to work.

That is, if you wish to stay on topic. You saw how readily I could take the thread off on something else. Lots of folks here can do that.