Professor's sudden dismissal stuns students(Aryan Race Nation)

equinoxnews ^ | 04/01/05 | Tiffanie Johnson and Roberto Chavez

[Smokin' Joe]

Should religious individuals be exposed to evolutionary teachings, or to modern archeological finds in the Holy Lands? According to your reasoning they should not...and that's disasterous to them and to the larger society if your view prevails.I Really don't know how you got this out of anything I posted.

Evolution is not hatred of religion, but a scientific theory, warts and all, and should be taught that way. (I had a year of paleontology, and there are warts on that theory). Even the religious should be familliar with the theory if they are to disagree with it, otherwise, they cannot do so intelligently.

As for archaeology, I have done that, too, although not in the Holy Land, and unless they find THE body, my religious beliefs will not be swayed.

Most archaeological finds there have not only not been in conflict with the Bible, but have confirmed events recorded therein.

Frankly, at this point, I'd use Biblical accounts to look for sites, rather than look for sites in an effort to disprove the Bible, but that is just my common sense, results oriented, belief (don't waste your funding, find something!).

We start looking for shipwrecks or other archaeological finds based on historical accounts, why not use the Hebrews' accounts to look for sites there?

Religious or historical accounts should have some basis in fact, whether that has decrepitated to legend or not. Only by pursuing these leads can we confirm or refute them. Much of American history has degenerated to popular fable, and this will provide rich provender for those who wish to delve past the surface and do good research from surviving original documents and archaeological data.

What I don't understand is how you could equate these with the gratuitous exposition of racially demeaning idealogy from the lectern in classes where it is not part of the subject matter.

[Rembrandt_fan]

Many years ago, William F. Buckley essentially 'purged' members of the John Birch Society from the conservative big tent because of their paranoid, extremist, racist views. Goldwater made it official during his presidential run in the early Sixties, publicly denouncing their attempts to pass themselves off as conservative Republicans. Are Buckley and Goldwater not conservatives? If not, who is? You?

[Smokin' Joe]

What both Nazis and communists represent is a totalitarian agenda that would make of us ants and slaves. Both should be fought wherever they peek out from their holes--simply as a matter of principle. If some conservatives don't perceive the threat these people represent, others do.

I agree with neither of the idealogies (Nazi or Communist), but understand, as the founders did, that the way to strip any idealogy or any other onerous systems of belief of their semblance of legitimacy is to let them be discussed openly, in the proper forum.

Most deeply flawed belief systems only work as a closed system. To keep those systems closed, secretive, or allow them to portray themselves somehow as victimized, only adds strength to their rhetoric.

If, as I believe, individual freedom is indeed the best system, then denying freedom of expression to counter-idealogies not only weakens the cause of freedom prima facie, but makes it hypocritical.

This is no better than the thought muzzling effects of 'political correctness'.

I believe the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights can survive the onslaught of a few more flawed ideaolgies, but only if those are exposed for what they are in open, rational discussion, by standing by the fundamental belief that Rights are not Rights if they are not Rights for all.

Becoming totalitarian to eliminate the totalitarians is not the solution.

The lunatic fringes define, to some degree, the center. To eliminate them merely permits the fringe to be redefined, as the Communist elements of the Democratic Party have been doing to Conservatives for decades.

It is only this progression which has allowed people like Chuck Schumer to define the NRA as "extremist", for example. By denying that their own fringe elements are extremist (when was the last time you heard the SPLC or the VPC defined as left-wing extremists?) the center, politically speaking, is shifted to the left.

Exposing both extremes of the spectrum for what they are not only discredits the fringe idealogies, but maintains balance in the rest of discourse.

[nightdriver]

"In fact, Jacques Pluss, an adjunct professor at the Metropolitan Campus, openly discussed his March 21 dismissal from Fairleigh Dickinson in a 44-minute interview on a website of the National Socialist Movement designed with swastikas and a picture of Adolf Hitler."

I guess tenure does have its limits,after all.

I wonder if he got a huge buyout like Colorado was contemplating for Ward Churchill.

[Rembrandt_fan]

You wrote: "Exposing both extremes of the spectrum for what they are not only discredits the fringe ideologies, but maintains balance in the rest of discourse."

Thoughtful, well-written post. And it isn't my belief that we should muzzle them: let them publish their hateful little websites and pamphlets, practice goose-stepping in the backyard, or wear sheets and gather round the bonfire in the back forty. And believe me, I'm all about exposing them for what they are. I still maintain, however, in this specific instance, that professors who publicly promote extremist viewpoints like, say, national socialism or communism--should be fired from institutions that receive taxpayer funding directly or indirectly. On this, we'll simply have to disagree.

[Smokin' Joe]

I saw a thing about Pierce, et. al. this morning on the tube, and about how the Turner Diaries were allegedly the 'blueprint' for the OK City bombing. The only reason I would even consider suffering through the book (although I have not) is to see if there is any possibility of that connection.

There is a similar possible scenario in Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising, which I would not completely put past the Clinton Dirty Tricks department.

In reality, I think there was a flawed sting operation going on and things didn't get shut down in time. Just my own tinfoil hat belief.

However, Pierce's exposure for what he was effectively colored his statements and made him ineffective to all but the most willing to believe.

This guy never avowed his personal beliefs on the job, at least not in a way which his students could discern, and apparently treated all with courtesy in that venue. Even retail sales clerks will do the same with those they cannot stand, simply because it is their job.

Sure, Pluss is probably the poster child for Aryan victimhood, and imho, that was stupid. It only adds strength to any statement of victimhood he can muster.

It would have been far wiser for the administration to expose (leak) his beliefs and let the campus environment do the rest.

If kids were stupid enough to buy BS, the Democrats would be far more successful with their on-campus voting drives.

[Smokin' Joe]

Who is to say the Conservatives have not been infiltrated with those who would have us surrender our rights for the illusion of safety or security, whether it be from a physical threat or an idealogy?

A threat to our God-given Rights, Constitutionally enumerated or not, is a threat, no matter the claimed affiliations or idealogy of the source.

[liberallarry]

I don't wish to disagree with anything you've said - and your tone is the epitome of civility and decency - but somehow you've addressed the wrong person. I've not succeeded in making myself clear even to you.

I've never confused statistical or scientific data with the "rhetoric" of racial supremacy...or used it "as supporting evidence for some ideology defaming all members of that race". It was Pluss who did that and I would have no difficulty in arguing with him about it...which is why I've supported his right to free speech.

We do, however, differ in our assessment of the policy implications implied by differing explanations or those differences, and by their possible size.

[Rembrandt_fan]

I read 'The Turner Diaries' shortly after the bombing, and 'suffer' is precisely the word I would use, in terms of literary merit alone. In the book, Earl Turner and his 'resistance cell' construct a massive truck bomb fertilizer/oil device and blow up the FBI building in Washington DC. By all accounts--including his family--McVeigh was strongly affected by the book, and closely identified with its protagonist, Earl Turner. So yeah, based on my own reading, there is a connection between Pierce and the OK City bombing, although it is doubtful, I think, that Pierce had any direct knowledge. McVeigh, after all, would want to protect his idol. 'Plausible denial' and all that.

I also tend to doubt McVeigh and Nichols acted alone, given the closely knit structure of the 'racialist' subculture, even if the assistance they were given was in the nature of moral support. I'm sure others knew and approved of their plan, if nothing else. Thinking it might've been a government sting gone awry is quite a stretch, but after the fiascoes at Waco and Ruby Ridge, not to mention the 'Arkancide' phenomenon, one is tempted to think Clinton capable of anything.

[liberallarry]

Evolution is not hatred of religion, but a scientific theory, warts and all, and should be taught that way

True, but religion also has warts - big ones - and should be treated similarly...and that's very difficult to do.

Most archaeological finds there have not only not been in conflict with the Bible, but have confirmed events recorded therein.

For a good summary of the current state of biblical archeology (and scholarship) try

Who were the Early Israelites and Where did they come from?

by William G. Dever

I brought this up because the analogy to the topic of the thread seemed good; In both cases strongly held views are being challanged and in both cases the best way to deal with the conflict is public debate...or so it seems to me.

[liberallarry]

which is why I've supported his right to free speech

Strike that. It just confuses things.

[risk]

Now if we can just get the colleges to fire a few hundred thousand Marxists and post-modernists and we might see some real academic freedom and standards emerge again on campuses.

"But it's not even in the same class..." /sarcasm

[Smokin' Joe]

The problem with the melting pot is that it is not melting. Before groups moving here can learn English and become familliar with American culture, they are handed ballots in the tongue of the 'old' country. Unfortunately, there is no assimilation taking place on a broad enough scale, especially with the plethora of hyphenation which has taken place in the last few decades.

I bear no prejudice against anyone, but if you want to be American, be an American, and do away with the rest. Maybe then American Culture can be defined again instead of the polyglot we have now.

I do not define myself as an English-American, my ancestors fought to free themselves of the English government, but retained elements of that culture, especially the language and English Common Law, and built on the precepts of the Magna Carta to make their small contribution to what became one of a group of fledgling nations huddled on one edge of a vast continent. That those nations sought mutual security and the benefit of free trade and a unifying currency later morphed into, amidst blood and grapeshot, a National government, and eventually, through intervention in foreign wars, a "Superpower".

With great power comes great responsibility, but that responsibility is in great measure to ensure that the Republic often mis-decribed as the 'bastion of Democracy' does not rot from within.

We can no more give freedom to the rest of the world than we can give an education to someone. Either is a prize to be sought, and while tutoring, mentoring, and occasionally mediation may be warranted, meddling is counterproductive.

The recipient must earn the prize, otherwise it is meaningless.

Only the those who seem to secretly desire World Government truly embrace overly widespread and unnecessary military involvement, but the example of the Roman Legions scattered throughout the Empire while Barbarian hordes were bribed to not sack the City of the Seven Hills stands as a stark historical reminder to all who would see what awaits such folly. Certain parallels exist which echo the internal decay of the Roman Empire as well.

If global government is inevitable, it is a given that we would want to be the formative agent thereof, but I neither believe that Global Government is inevitable nor desireable.

[Smokin' Joe]

Who were the Early Israelites and Where did they come from? by William G. Dever

Thanks for the reference, I'll try to chase that down.

[Lx]

Don't be mad at me if you can't understand a simple sentence. You know what it meant. Put simply, in deference to you:

You didn't notice it, I don't care if you're his grandkids or if you live in his home.

You meaning you, it meaning NBF's name, his grandkids the real NBF's grandkids, his home the real NBF's home. Put it together, means that even if you were that close to the real NBF, it disn't help you identify the dreaded NBF, you just pigybacked your phony outrage on someone else's question.

You are becoming most tiresome. I had people like you in class. Always asking questions where the real intent was to show everyone else how brilliant your are, bah! Yeah you take on all comers you tough guy you, how many people have you brought to your point of view?

[Lx]

Including calling someone you don't even know a racist? Did it ever occur to you two that maybe he picked that name to give people the vapors? It must be tough living your life in a permanent state of outrage.

[LauraleeBraswell]

I don't like to use to r word. I'm not going to say that he is racist.

But to give people the vapors, So he would constantly have to explain his self righteous point of view?! That is not a good reason.

Nathan Bedford raised an insurrection against our great Union. He was one of those elites who got the poor whites all riled up to fight for a cause they didn't believe in, so that people like him could keep their feudal system in place.

He was a shameless wealthy cotton planter who made his fortune in trading slaves. And he started the Klu Klux Klan. Oh, wait he felt bad about that and it was too late. What a tragedy.

Our founding fathers were against slavery. Did you know that? Madison and Jefferson later contended that slavery would be wiped out on it's own gradually. They could not afford to keep slaves.

And it would have been sooner, if it had not been for self important Confederate elitists who wanted to keep slavery profitable by keeping the trading tariffs low. Slavery would have died out sooner. And Confederate elitists were in with the Europeans. They didn't care about the USA, they cared about themselves.

[LauraleeBraswell]

""The problem with the melting pot is that it is not melting.""

I disagree. I think it is very much melting! I dare say many of these American immigrants are more patriotic than our own citizens! And their children pick up very very quickly!


I agree about having different ballots in different languages. Our language is English. But be positive, because my experience is that so many immigrants appreciate that they can move up the mobile social ladder if they work hard and they truly appreciate freedom of our wonderful nation!