Pre-war Jewish property in Poland now worth $30b

Haaretz ^ | 29/03/2005 | By Amiram Barkat, Haaretz Correspondent

[lizol]

Where and when has Polish government stole anything from Jews?

[wideawake]

Since the Communists nationalized everything, what makes you think that anyone got "fair market value"? And how to determine such value in a Stalinist state?

I specifically stated that no one got fair market value.

However, at this moment it would be quite easy to establish the current market value of much of these assets.

[fogofbobegabay]

True enough. To be honest, some of the Soviet era "Stalin Gothic" buildings grow on you.

[dfwgator]

You mean like this "gift" from Uncle Joe?

[sobieski]

How would it be easy to establish the value of a claim from a 1939 owner, which went through extensive damage, who paid zero to rebuild the damage, which was nationalized by the Communists? What is the fair market value of a building or factory that hasn't existed for 60 years and was destroyed by third and fourth parties?

[free_european]

When I was in Moscow I saw lots and I admit I quite liked them - a bit like a Batman style building. The later stuff from the '60s and '70s is awful though.

[free_european]

I quite like that one!

[wideawake]

What is the fair market value of a building or factory that hasn't existed for 60 years and was destroyed by third and fourth parties?

Why, the amount of money that people are willing to pay for the land that it stood on, of course.

[hunter112]

Stories like this make me wonder how much longer we're still going to be fighting World War II.

[free_european]

Here's the British version, the University of London Library. I spent many a happy day there as a student at the London School of Economics

[fogofbobegabay]

The London version is fin indeed but is there a casino downstairs? One up for Warsaw.

[SJackson]

Since 90 percent of Polish Jewry perished in the Holocaust, it was unlikely that there would be many heirs, they said, and therefore a joint Jewish body should be set up and recognized as representing the Jewish people, as had been done in Germany....This is BS. Some Jewish families sent away their children on the eve of the invasion. I'm living proof of that.

3.25 to 3.5 million pre war, 100,000 or so by 1947. If it's not 90%, that's not far off.

[free_european]

UK students do well enough with the state-subsidised booze without getting a casino ;-)

[lizol]

Such a law was never implemented. I think (but I may be wrong) it was President Kwasniewski, who vetoed it.

In fact - there was no process of proper re-privatisation in Poland - neither for Jews, nor for ethnic Poles. I think this is one of the biggest problems in today's Poland and it must be solved in some way.

I don't think it will be possible for the former owners to get full equivalent, as if it happened - we would probably have to "close the shop down" in Poland. Poland just can't afford it financially.
What's is possible is some kind of partial compensation. But it must be equal for everyone. There can't be special rules for Jews (no matter Polish, American or Israeli citizens) and for the rest.

In my opinion such a compensation should go to former owners or their heirs - provided they're actually entitled to get it, that they're heirs actually.

I strongly oppose a proposed solution, that in a case, when no Jewish owner survived Holocaust and he left no heirs - some special Jewish NGO (foundation or whatever) should get the compensation in his name.
I can't find a reasonable explanation and justification for such a solution.
Even today Polish inheritance law says, that if someone dies without heirs, without leaving his last will - his property becomes state property.

[rmlew]

Holding Poland reponsible for actionso fthe Nazis and Soviets is crazy. However, holding Poland reposnible for the 1968 anti-Jewish pressures that forces thousands of Jews to flee is another matter.

[Grzegorz 246]

"However, holding Poland reposnible for the 1968 anti-Jewish pressures that forces thousands of Jews to flee is another matter."

Yes, however this was also connected with Jewish-Arab war in 67 (commies supported Arabs) and with conflicts inside "Polish" Communist Party - some leaders of one wing of the Party were Jewish and their competitors decided to remove them together with thousands of innocent people, who were usually more Polish than Jewish.

[pabianice]

Since 90 percent of Polish Jewry perished in the Holocaust, it was unlikely that there would be many heirs, they said, and therefore a joint Jewish body should be set up and recognized as representing the Jewish people, as had been done in Germany.

Bullshit! My grandfather managed to escape from Pabianice before WW II. All his/my family there were murdered on 1942-1943. I and all my cousins are still very much alive, BTW.

[SJackson]

Such a law was never implemented. I think (but I may be wrong) it was President Kwasniewski, who vetoed it…I don't think it will be possible for the former owners to get full equivalent, as if it happened - we would probably have to "close the shop down" in Poland. Poland just can't afford it financially…. What's is possible is some kind of partial compensation. But it must be equal for everyone. There can't be special rules for Jews (no matter Polish, American or Israeli citizens) and for the rest…In my opinion such a compensation should go to former owners or their heirs - provided they're actually entitled to get it, that they're heirs actually….I strongly oppose a proposed solution, that in a case, when no Jewish owner survived Holocaust and he left no heirs - some special Jewish NGO (foundation or whatever) should get the compensation in his name….I can't find a reasonable explanation and justification for such a solution. Even today Polish inheritance law says, that if someone dies without heirs, without leaving his last will - his property becomes state property.

There’s a reasonable solution in there. The NGO concept stems from the idea that unclaimed assets should flow to elderly survivors. There are many in need in Israel and Eastern Europe. Unfortunately NGOs assume a life of their own, and at this point in time mortality begins to argue against the participation of NGOs.

[SJackson]

Holding Poland reponsible for actionso fthe Nazis and Soviets is crazy. However, holding Poland reposnible for the 1968 anti-Jewish pressures that forces thousands of Jews to flee is another matter.

The issue centers around post war confiscations, so the Nazis are out of the mix.