Terri Schiavo's 2002 CT scan

MSNBC ^ | 3 29 05 | msnbc dan abrams interview

[jess35]

Hammesfahr offered ZERO, evidence that his experimental treatment could work. He cited no names, no specific patient cases. Of the hours of videotape he took, there wre no cases of conscious action on the part of Terri. That is why the judge discarded his testimony...along with the fact that he's claiming to be a Nobel prize nominee and the congressman/lawyer who nominated him didn't have the standing to nominate him.

Quack

[Ethrane]

From the transcript (Cranford critiquing the testimony of Dr. Cheshire): "He did an interview with her for 90 minutes, observing her. He never viewed her CT scans. He makes no mention of her EEG, so while he's a reputable neurologist, perhaps, at the Mayo Clinic, his report means absolutely nothing. It's a desperation, last minute move by the governor who just doesn't know what else to do, so he brings in a Christian fundamentalist neurologist. It's just not true"

Kind of the pot calling the kettle black, no?

Cranford, a known right-to-die advocate and associate of the Hemlock Society criticizes Cheshire for being a Christian Fundamentalist?

This guy is a sicko too...

[potlatch]

The more you read the more contradictions you come across. Only an autopsy by reliable people will ever give us the facts.

Goodnight, see you tomorrow!

[jess35]

That is factually incorrect.

[texasflower]

The diagnosis was NOT made just from this scan dio.

The prognosis wasn't determined just from this scan.

She got lots of therapy in the early years including some experimental therapies.

She did not get better.

[concerned about politics]

PS........Complete report of Dr. William Hammesfahr, a world-reknowned neurologist and Noble Prize nominee (FR thread)

[flaglady47]

The black and white scans are not both Terri's. Only the one on the right.

The scan speaks for itself.

[jess35]

He's a sicko because he's not a Christian Fundamentalist...or because he pointed out that the parent's doctors brought no evidence to the table?

Which is it?

[Diogenesis]

That not what the evidence shows.

And radiologically, you are wrong. Period.

[madconservative]

That is precisely my point. The one on the right looks like it is a cross section taken on a much higher plane of the skull, making the comparison to a normal scan not (pardon the cliche) "apples to apples". The scan on the right appears to be lower because the skull appears thicker (like I said before it is just a hunch, but its based on a whole lot of technical drawing). As you would make cross-sections of the skull moving up, eventually the skull would appear thicker because you are "slicing into the skull at an angle, rather than perpendicularly.


Incidentally, the thickness post 16 looks comparable in thickness but who even knows if these heads are of comparible size...

[texasflower]

No, she did not show improvement. Furthermore, you are not working with the facts.

You even said, "probably" when referring to the jury's decision.

The jury was awarding based on injury. There is no doubt that she had a brain injury.

[texasflower]

Radiologically I am wrong? First of all are you are radiologist?

Secondly did I make a radiological determination myself? No.

But I can see the scan. I have seen hundreds of scans in my career and this one is one of the very worst I have seen.

[Recovering_Democrat]

ping for a later read. this is stunning news. WHERE THE HELL IS THE MEDIA ON THIS STORY?? Blogs of knowledgeable people, if this is an accurate blogger, are going to have a huge impact on cases like this!!

[Eagles6]

Yeah, I see em. What do they mean? Can you read it? Are you an expert? I spoke to a world reknowned neuro-surgeon about it. He said he wouldn't make a diagnosis of someone without examining them and he sure as hell wouldn't attempt to diagnose solely on an old cat scan posted on the internet that may be hers or may be that of a test chimp.

[concerned about politics]

The more you read the more contradictions you come across. Only an autopsy by reliable people will ever give us the facts.

Ain't gonna happen. If we get an honest report from this guy, I'll be shocked! There should be others as whiteness who have no bias in this case.

Dr. Jon Thogmartin, the medical examiner chosen by Felos/Schiavo to perform the autopsy, was appointed to his current position by Gov. Jeb Bush in 2000 for a three year term and reappointed in 2003. He reports to the Pinellas County Board of Commissioners, the same commission of which Greer was a commissioner prior to assuming judicial office.

[texasflower]

The point of the scans is to show what a normal brain looks like. The deterioration of Terri's poor brain is clear.

Are the cross sections from exactly the same plane? They are close but I would not be able to say if they are the same.

What is significant is the deterioration of Terri's.

[supercat]

No, she did not show improvement. Furthermore, you are not working with the facts.

So were the nurses who wrote that she vocalized things like "stop" when they did things she didn't like simply imagining it?

[jbstrick]

Quick question. Can a CT scan tell if a person is in a PVS or a vegitative state.

[flaglady47]

PPS:

Hammesfahr:
"World Renowned Nobel Prize Nominee" - He is neither of those things.
His reputation among his respectable peers is that of a quack and a fraud.
He has been confronted with this multiple times, and asked to cease and desist even by the congressman who wrote the letter! Yet, he dishonestly persists in claiming to hold that honor.

Upon what does he base this claim?

At the request of the VP of the Chiefs of Police group in Gulfport, FL, his local Congressman, Mike Bilirakis, wrote a letter asking them to consider him for a "Nobel Peace Prize in Medicine."

1. There there is no such thing as a "Peace Prize in Medicine"
2. Bilirakis is not even on the panel of people who can nominate anyone. Nor are Chiefs of Police.
( This is what it takes to nominate someone for the distinction he claims. )

Nevertheless, Dr Hammesfahr, who is an alternative medicine neurologist, continues to knowingly and fraudulently claim to be a Nobel Prize Nominee. He very recently pretended in a KGO radio interview to be surprised to discover that he wasn't an actual Nobel prize nominee, and unaware that his congressman's letter was meaningless.

But, he has been aware for years:

At the 2002 trial, he was asked to bring a the official letter of confirmation he claimed to have in his possession, along with everything else to support his claim. He claimed he forgot to bring it. The facts were very clear then as he was drilled on the subject - including his previous pretense that he would look into it.

He also said he just could not locate the records or remember names or details about the supposedly "numerous" people in Terri's condition he claims to have treated with success. No doubt, had he actually achieved the feat he claims he could achieve with Terri, he would have deserved a Nobel Prize. Too bad he forgot to tell anyone when or to whom he did it. "It" was impossible to get out of him under oath.
He would make Clinton proud. (I'll provide a link to the testimony Monday)

His claim that, if a patient can swallow saliva they do not need a feeding tube, is a lie. First of all, he knows Terri failed the swallowing tests taken in the first 3 years, while she was in the midst of good therapy. (The last one, after three years, said no more tests were necessary.) He also admitted on the stand that that swallowing saliva is very common even among PVS patients. Especially those whose heads tilt back like Terri's
(It is a common condition of neck spasticity called opisthotonus - a contraction of the neck muscles just like her other muscles - it goes along with her spasticity and seizures caused by the anoxic brain injury. I'll hunt down a link asap.)

His continual use of the "Terri had no heart attack" (he knows she had cardiac arrest), relies on peoples' ignorance of the difference to cast doubt on the cause of Terri's collapse. Once caught in that, he tried to say she didn't have cardiac arrest, because he doesn't think her heart "stopped". It didn't need to "stop".
This is all only part of the available evidence of his deceitful character. He's currently in the middle of a challenge to his medical license.

Even Glenn Beck, a major supporter of the Schindlers, ended his interview with him, apologizing to his audience for having him on, after he refused to be straightforward.
This "world renowned" doctor, who is listed at quackwatch.com and advertised in the National enquirer, has never published in any respected medical journal (check pubmed). He claims to have had his work "peer reviewed," yet the "peers" are a few friend$ who work with him. http://www.hnionline.com/results_peer_reviewed_and_publis.htm

His patent is merely the use of common vasodilators to increase blood flow to the brain. Though the medical community says it is hogwash, he gets away with it with the board by listing his treatment as experimental upfront. It has had anecdotal success in a certain segment of patients. The only thing close to a study he did was on whiplash and some other highly functional patients.
Yet, he touts this treatment as a cure-all for everything from ADD to PVS. He bases his claims of success treating ADD on his treatment of 2 adult sisters who said they improved after taking the pills along with doing other therapies that would improve them as well.

Here is a typical example of this man's deceitfulness. Remember - Terri, without doubt, had cardiac arrest (see above), which is different from a Heart Attack (MI). Cardiac arrest is 50% more likely to occur if potassium is as low as a 3.5 Terri's was a 2.0. Heart attack is a totally different thing. Keeping this in mind, read this section of a transcript

HAMMESFAHR: I'd like to go back to the potassium for a second, because he talked about the potassium and about the diet pills issue or some other drugs.

COLMES: Sure. Sure.

HAMMESFAHR: But the medical record clearly shows that there has never been a heart attack. Potassium causes damage by causing heart attacks, so we know the potassium is not an issue.
...
Right now we have a woman who had a collapse with no known cause. No evidence of infection, heart attack, respiratory failure or anything. The only thing found in the emergency room is a damaged neck.

Now, he is either totally clueless about common physiology, or he is making a concerted effort to deceive people into believing Michael strangled her.

I would also add, that if Hammesfahr only saw a stiff neck like Terri's in one patient, it only goes to more proof that he's lying about seeing many PVS patients - he never has brought forward any proof, though it was so critical he do so.

There was and is nothing about Terri's neck that was or is unexpected for anyone in her condition.

Quackwatch http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/tcd.html
2002 Trial Transcript
Multiple web sites investigating him
http://www.hnionline.com/nominating_letter_for_the_Nobel.htm
http://www.hnionline.com/nobel_prize_nomination.htm

[OneTimeLurker]

I think the part that you suggest is so much thicker is fluid. When a person's brain atrophys, something needs to fill the space and I have read previously that she had a lot of fluid in her brain.