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Russian chopper down in Chechnya
BBC ^ | Tuesday, 22 March, 2005

Posted on 03/29/2005 8:42:48 AM PST by Grzegorz 246

A Russian Mi-8 military helicopter has crashed in the war-ravaged Chechnya region, with some reports saying six people on board were killed. The crash happened 20km (13 miles) from the main Russian military base at Khankala, near Grozny.

It is not clear whether the crash was caused by technical difficulties or rebel activity.

Chechen separatists have been battling Russian forces in the region for more than five years.

Nine passengers and three crew were said to be on board the aircraft.

But sources differed on casualty figures, with some officials saying no one had died.

Helicopter crashes are common in Chechnya, with a number lost to rebel ground fire, but others coming down because of pilot error or technical malfunctions.

The last incident happened on 11 March, when a helicopter hit power lines, killing 11 soldiers.

Bullet holes were later reportedly found in the tail.

The crash came just three days after the death of Chechen rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; Russia
KEYWORDS: chechnya; putin; russia
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To: twinself

BTW, the 1939 Soviet-German pact was simmillar to the one Poland made with Germany in 1935, which Hitler proclaimed null and void on the eve of his agression.


121 posted on 04/05/2005 4:13:58 AM PDT by Witch-king of Angmar
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To: ms_68

Then explain how come there isn't a single German left in Danzig, Stettin, Breslau, Glogau, Posen? Grew wings and flew away?


122 posted on 04/05/2005 4:16:04 AM PDT by Witch-king of Angmar
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To: ms_68

Who was it that ethnically clensed everything with a German surname after the war? Who was it that murdered suriving Jewish inmates of the concentration camps when they came back to re-claim their property in Poland? And the pogroms in the late 1960-ties? 1960-TIES???!!!!!


124 posted on 04/05/2005 4:23:17 AM PDT by Witch-king of Angmar
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To: ms_68
Aside the fact that it is far from truthful, both Polish governments(the one in London and the one in Moscow) gave full acquiesce to that. So even if your thesis is true, postwar Poland would have done it anyway.
127 posted on 04/05/2005 4:26:51 AM PDT by Witch-king of Angmar
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To: ms_68

Yeah, that evil KGB produced angry mobs to attack the remaining Jews in Poland.

You don't have to believe me, we could just ask some Jewish Freepers about it.


128 posted on 04/05/2005 4:29:18 AM PDT by Witch-king of Angmar
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To: ms_68

Lest we forget: the pogrom at Kielce, July 1946:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/sipa/REGIONAL/ECE/vol1no3/kielce.html


130 posted on 04/05/2005 5:10:44 AM PDT by Witch-king of Angmar
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Comment #133 Removed by Moderator

To: ms_68

And your proof for this is what exactly?


134 posted on 04/05/2005 5:54:06 AM PDT by Witch-king of Angmar
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To: ms_68

And your proof of this?


135 posted on 04/05/2005 5:55:09 AM PDT by Witch-king of Angmar
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To: Witch-king of Angmar

Rokkosowski, a Pole.


136 posted on 04/05/2005 5:56:09 AM PDT by Witch-king of Angmar
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To: ms_68
Few people in the west know who Colonel Jozef Beck was but he is a central character in the lead up to WW2. It was because of German demands on Poland and the Poles refusal to grant these demands that WW2 broke out. Beck had been Polish foreign minister since 1932 and was in charge of negotiations with Germany. Beck had a military background in the cavalry and has been described as an elegant dandy (extravagantly fond of dress) with a taste for beautifull women and called by Litvinov (Soviet foreign minister) a Nazi pimp. He was distrusted by both the French and the British. That Poland lined up with Britain and France was suprising as Poland had enjoyed good relations with Nazi Germany for years, they both despised the Soviet Union, had co-operated in the fall of Czechoslovakia and Poland was not a democracy. In January 1934 a non-aggression pact was signed between Poland and Germany. It seems Hitler hoped to conclude a settlement with Poland which would turn her against Russia but the Poles would not take the bait. If Poland sided with Germany it would have ended any danger from the Polish French alliance if Germany attacked in the west. Relations with the Soviets were put on hold to demonstrate good faith to the Poles.

In 1936 Poland offered to join France with whom they were allied in joint military action over the occupation of the Rhineland.

In May 1938 the French asked the Polish ambassador in Paris what Polish policy would be in the event of war over Czechoslovakia. He replied "we will not move" and if France attacked Germany over Czechoslovakia then France would be the agressor. Daladier (French Premier) told the Soviet ambassador "not only can we not count on Polish support, but we have no faith Poland will not strike us in the back". In April 38 the French ambassador in Berlin told the Soviet charge d`affairs Poland "was clearly helping Germany" in its anti-Czech activities. In September 38 the French military attache in Warsaw asked for information on German troop movements his Polish counterpart replied he could say little in view of the French attitude over Teschen.

On October 4 1938 Lipski Polish ambassador in Berlin met Ribbentrop for lunch and was presented with a plan for a joint solution of Polish German differences. The restoration of Danzig to the Reich, an extra territorial autobahn and railway across the corridor and Poland to join the anti-comintern pact. Beck rejected the offer Poland was not prepared to sacrifice Danzig for the sake of a Polish German accord. He offered a guarantee for the German majority in Danzig over their national and cultural way of life stating ".......any other solution.......would eventually lead to conflict". Given the difference in size between Poland and Germany and the nature of the Nazi state to imagine Poland could hold onto Danzig and the corridor without concessions was a blunder par excellence. On January 5 1939 Beck visited Hitler at Berchtesgaden where Hitler stated that "Germany would be greatly interested in the continued existence of a strongly nationalist Polish state...........Germanys attitude to Russia would always be marked with extreme caution........... the existance of a strong Polish army lightened Germanys load to a considerable extent". It seems Hitler was prepared to accept Poland as a junior partner for the time being if they gave up Danzig etc. On the 30th of January Hitler in a speech to the Reichstag emphasised German Polish friendship. Some further talks had taken place with Ribbentrop in late January but Beck would not agree to the required concessions. In March Hitler broke the Munich agreement and occupied Prague everything now changed as Hitler pushed for a settlement of the Danzig/corridor problem.

Sources used are :

A.G.P. Taylor - English History 1914- 1945

Nicholas Bethell - The War Hitler Won

Michael Carley - 1939 The Alliance That Never Was & The Coming Of WW2

Liddell Hart - History Of The Second World War

Donald Watt - Reader International History University Of London (articles written in the 1970s)

Colonel Baur (Swiss Army) - Article written in the 1970s on the origins of WW2

Ian Kershaw - Hitler

137 posted on 04/05/2005 6:03:58 AM PDT by Witch-king of Angmar
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To: twinself; Admin Moderator
I'd like to know the opinion of the site admins on the spree of personal and ethnic insults and hatred amply exhibited in this thread by a couple of participants from Poland, namely, ms_68 and twinself. It has been going on for some time but now it is definitely out of control. I do not think it will be appropriate for us of Russian origin here to answer personally to all this.
138 posted on 04/05/2005 6:51:04 AM PDT by RussianBoor
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Comment #139 Removed by Moderator

Comment #140 Removed by Moderator


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