Citizenship row divides Latvia

BBC News ^ | 25 March, 2005 | Angus Roxburgh

[jb6]

That's because Chechins aren't human, they're untermenschen, don't you know? Just listen to the racebaiting hatemonger jb6, he will tell you.

234 posted on 03/29/2005 12:24:18 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 231 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

Still waiting for you to prove this lie. This is one of your classics, almost as good as the one about not believing in a free press. Classics.

[Tailgunner Joe]

When you show my quotes for all the things you have falsely accused me of, supporting Chechnya, Red China, Islam, etc.

Btw, I am still waiting for my own TTS style "chart." Did you forget about me?

[Grzegorz 246]

Really ? Felix always used to be a citizen of Russia/Soviet Russia/Soviet Union. He still has many monuments in your fatherland.

[jb6]

I started putting one togather but then decided you were more an irritant and the effort wasn't worth it. The best part about you, as opposed to TTS, is you tend to self destruct a lot more.

[Tailgunner Joe]

Yeah, I knew you'd back down.

[jb6]

From what? You? Hardly. You're to fun to poke holes in. Rather entertaining, especially when you crack and your inner hatred comes flowing out. I could write a psychology white paper on you.

[jb6]

TTS spills BS and then splits, rarely sticking around, that's why a table is needed, you stick around and become swiss cheese.

[Tailgunner Joe]

You can't prove any of your lies about me and you are backing down, just like you always do. punk.

[free_european]

Don't forget the fine city of Dzerzhinsk on the Oka River named after "Iron Feliks". This is another city - along with Kaliningrad - that should be renamed at once.

[A. Pole]

The Russian peasants and factory-workers forcefully relocated at gunpoint?

Actually there are many Russians in Latvia and especially in Estonia who lived there for centuries. Estonia was part of Russia since the beginning since Estonians were one of the four founding tribes of Russia (with the fifth being the Rus - Swedish Vikings who gave the name to the country).

Soviet did not paid much respect to the real ethnic borders and for example they GAVE Polish Wilno (Vilnius) to the Lituanians. Lituanians in a very nasty way are pushing and suppressing Poles so they became a minority in the land they inhabited for centuries.

Latvians were very eager supporters of the Bolsheviks and helped them to established genocidal tyranny over the whole Russia. Now they claim the victim status.

[A. Pole]

BTW I wouldn't mind If Poles in Lithuania or Ukraine had to pass this kind of test.

Poles in Lituania are being gradually supressed.

[MadIvan]

You're the one who doesn't know your Cajun history. Yes, they were kicked out of Acadie, today's Nova Scotia - many went back to France, found it undesireable, and then settled in Louisiana, which was then under the protection of the Spanish crown. It was a conscious choice to go there.

Ivan

[twinself]

If you said that German was spoken in Silesian towns starting 13th century I would agree. Actually the same could be said about Flemish. Towns were set upon so called "German law" by both Polish and German settlers (Zlotoryja, Lwowek were examples of German settlements). But I repeat: SILESIA WAS NOT MOSTLY GERMAN SINCE 13 TH CENTURY. It is a silly lie, believe me. Short recap from Silesia's history:

1000 - Christian episcopate in Wroclaw is constituted by Boleslaw Chrobry

1138 - Polish king Boleslaw Krzywousty divides his land into smaller prinipalities, Silesia goes to his son Wladyslaw.

1348 - Polish king Kasimir the Great gives Silesia to Czech Jagiellon - Jan of Luxemburg after peace treaty of Namyslow (Czech Bohemia was an autononymous part of Roman Empire of course).

1526 - Austrian Habsburgs start to rule Silesia.

Silesia became Prussian in 1741 after the battle of Malujowice lost by Austrian Habsburgs to Prussian Hohenzellerns.

It only became German in 1871 after German Empire consituted as a separate country. :)

[A. Pole]

It only became German in 1871 after German Empire consituted as a separate country. :)

Yeah, but it is only in the very artificial legal sense in which Germany did not exist until she was united by Prussia in XIX (while Austria lost the same attempt).

Same way, Greek nation came into existance in XIX c. The fact is that Silesia was part of Poland in middle ages for a short time and that Slavic Silesians became Germanized by the spontaneous cultural process. And before they were as Polish as they were Czech.

[twinself]

Nationality and states are obviously different matters. As we all know Germany and Italy didn't exist as states before mid XIX century but of course German and Italian nations (as a cultural commonwealths, NOT in the sense of "modern" nationalism linked to the concept of blood bonds) existed hundreds of years before that happened. Having said that by no means Silesia can be considered German since the XIII century in any other sense than lingustic, because many of its inhabitants (Austrians, Poles, Czechs, Dutch, Scots) used it as their first language.

[RussianBoor]

Nationality and states are obviously different matters.

Oh, really? Somebody just recently refused to have anything to do with Felix Dzerzhinsky because of his different citizenship. How about his blood bonds?

I am intrigued more and more by the interesting kind of world view shown by you and your Polish pack. The last time I heard about blood bonds in the context of "modern" nationalism were Nurnberg laws. That motion was soundly defeated at a very heavy price. So I am sorry but blood bonds are a basis of nation building maybe in Poland only, and I would be very surprised to know that given large territories belonging to Poland now that used to be ethnic Russian (inhabited by old Rus' people who were predecessors of modern Russians, Ukrainian and Belorussians), Lithuanian and German.

It may come as a surprise to you but almost any country in the world can be considered as such in no other sense than linguistic. People (except some very special cases) usually do not do racial profiling when they marry and have kids. Furthermore, in Middle Ages there was no concept of nationhood at all. There were feudal laws that made it perfectly normal for instance for Poland to be ruled by a member of the French dynasty (and for Latvia to be ruled by Romanovs, by the way :)). Especially ridiculous are blood bonds in defining nations such as the U.S.A. :))

To sum it up: Silesia was NOT Polish by feudal law because it was not under jurisdiction of a Polish principal. Silesia was NOT Polish by culture because the majority of its population did not speak Polish and lived by German laws. Silesia was NOT Polish even ethnically because Poles were not the majority of population. Silesia was NOT Polish because it was not recognized as such. You may see the map of the region in 1400 here. Note by the way large Prussian (i.e. German) and Lithuanian territories that are now occupied by Poland.

I quite admire the trick Poland has managed to take over Lithuania with all its territories and peoples (definitely NOT of Polish origin). However, obviously this is not enough for people like you. When talking of Silesia you consider it Polish because of blood bonds. When talking about Western Prussia (originally inhabited by the Prussian people) you probably cite the feudal right of conquest. You ownership of Western Ukraine and Belorussia is of course perfectly legal because of the Union of Krewo, and you are very sorry that you were forced out of Vilnius and as far East as Smolensk. I am very sorry but even Poland cannot have it both ways.

[Grzegorz 246]

They may quite easily get Polish citizenship If they don't like Lithuanian.

[A. Pole]

They may quite easily get Polish citizenship If they don't like Lithuanian.

What about the Kurds in Turkey?

[Grzegorz 246]

Kurds should go to Vova. Vova P. will give them a state.

[A. Pole]

Kurds should go to Vova. Vova P. will give them a state.

I see. You do not side with Kurds, you do not side even with the Poles. You are just against Russia even if it is not in Polish interest. Strange.