Posted on 03/27/2005 11:39:47 AM PST by El_Doctor
Rick Barnard of Morris, Illinois, wass arrested Sunday after trying to bring Terri Schiavo Easter communion. per cnn... ALLAHASSEE, Florida (CNN) -- Florida Gov. Jeb Bush said on Sunday there is nothing else he can do to save Terri Schiavo's life. "I cannot violate a court order," Bush said after returning to the Governor's Mansion from Easter Sunday church services. "I don't have powers from the United States Constitution or -- for that matter from the Florida Constitution -- that would allow me to intervene after a decision has been made." To Terri Schiavo's parents -- who have said Bush should do more to help their daughter -- the governor said: "I can't. I'd love to, but I can't." The governor has been under public pressure from Bob and Mary Schindler, parents of the 41-year-old brain-damaged woman, and many religious groups to intervene further in the case. On Thursday, a Florida state judge denied a petition by Gov. Bush and the state Department of Children and Families to take Schiavo into state custody. (Full story) The Florida Supreme Court dismissed on Saturday -- for the second time in a week -- an emergency petition by the Schindlers to have their daughter's feeding tube reconnected. "I'm sad that she's in the situation that she's in," Bush said, commenting publicly on the case for the first time since Thursday. "I feel bad for her family. My heart goes out to the Schindlers and, for that matter, to [her husband] Michael [Schiavo]," Bush said. "This has not been an easy thing for any, any member of the family. But most particularly for Terri Schiavo."
(Excerpt) Read more at CNN.com ...
Yes, it would have been a mess. Jeb didn't simply have the ducks in a row to risk a move like that. If the local guys had said "yeah, we're with you, come on in, despite court order" he would have. But, he didn't, and he had very good reasons. Armchair governing in this case, which was highly volatile, is just getting over the top.
Jeb Bush has bowed down before his master, the probate judge. He can only shrug his shoulders, hold up his palms, and say, "There's nothing I can do." By the way, I read that Terri's tongue is swollen and bleeding and even her eyeballs have begun to bleed. Sounds positively euphoric.
Meanwhile, here we sit during this barbaric, court-ordered murder-in-progress, watching our computer monitors and waiting (along with Jeb, I suppose) for the "breaking news" that the murder has finally been completed. God bless America, land of the free, home of the brave.
You're putting law enofrcement officials in the position of having tho choose between a court order (backed up by the State Supreme Court, mind you) and a Governor's order. As the state law enofrcment were moving in, the local guys said they would choose the courts. So, that means, you have to assume, they would fire back.
As much as I love Terri Schiavo, that would not have been the right move.
It's not wrong, it is right. I did not say he should have done it, actually I am not in favor of his going in and taking her precisely because the steps involved in doing so would have instituted a constitutional crisis in FL.
I got that post in #287 from the state of FL website.
Come on man, I'm messing with you a bit... :-) Do we need to go the name-calling route? I hope not, I'm sure if we sat down and compared our beliefs we'd probably agree on damn near everything, including the actual issue regarding Terri... I think we mostly disagree on Bush's position and involvment....
However, if you do want to continue with the name-calling, you're a poopy head! :^)
Also, I'm sorry to get fired up so much about this folks, but people who simply act like Jeb is a king with all these powers that are unchecked by the courts are over thet op. If this situation were reversed we'd be saying "how can he defy a lawful court order????"
There may be situations where defiance is justifable, but even if it is, it has to be smart. The state agency had local law enforcmeent saying they'd fire back and enforce the court order. Again, I support Terri fully, but having law enforcement dead over it is not the answer. I just simply dont think it is.
Meanwhile the Dan Rathers of the world get rich off the big advertising dollars which pour in while the Big-Brother loving public (conservatives included) stay glued to their TV's to watch the latest Terri Schiavo saga.
The answer...it's up the the people. Don't look for your hero executive to save the day. It's going to come to the point when the people have to do more of the work themselves. It will be a fight to wean off the boob tube, a fight from both conservatives and liberals, but one day we will stop looking to the mega leaders for entertainment and salvation.
And yet, if the governor does nothing, an impetus is created for future judges to feel justified in issuing orders to "take a life."
I would prefer the precedent of a governor clamping down on the judicial branch to the precedent of a governor doing nothing when a citizen is ordered to starve to death. He has the right and duty to refuse unconstitutional orders. And if he is ever out of line in bucking the judiciary, he can be held in check by the legislative branch. Hence the term "checks and balances" that our Founders set up in the Constitution. He could also be voted out of office, unlike many judges.
Our rule of law is not in danger if Jeb Bush acts. Just the opposite. The governor is not meant to be a mere puppet to the judiciary. He is an equal, separate branch, with his primary duty to uphold the Constitution. If he must obey the unconstitutional orders of a judge, and ignore his oath of office, then the rule of law is dead. We would have rule of will, the rule of judges--our supreme masters.
Speaking pragmatically, there is actually no long-term risk if the executive does the right thing, disregards the unconstitutional order, and saves a life. Orders have been disregarded before, over lesser crises, even on the wrong side of justice. And yet, somehow we survived.
Ann Coulter points out:
Democrats have called out armed federal agents in order to: 1) prevent black children from attending a public school in Little Rock, Ark. (National Guard), 2) investigate an alleged violation of federal gun laws in Waco, Texas (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms), and 3) deport a small boy to Cuba (Immigration and Naturalization Service). So how about a Republican governor sending in the National Guard to stop an innocent American woman from being starved to death in Florida? ...In two of the three cases mentioned above, the Democrats' use of force was in direct contravention of court rulings. ...
None of these exercises of military force has gone down in history as a noble moment, but that's because of the underlying purpose of the force, not the fact that force was used.
To the contrary, what has gone down in history as a glorious moment for the republic was when President Dwight Eisenhower (Republican) called out military force of his own. In response to Gov. Faubus' abuse of the National Guard, Eisenhower simultaneously revoked Faubus' control of the National Guard and ordered the 101st Airborne Division to escort black students to school. (Minutes later, Democrats pronounced the Arkansas public schools a "hopeless quagmire" and demanded to know what Ike's exit strategy was.)
As important as it was to enforce the constitutional right to desegregated schools, isn't it also important to enforce Terri Schiavo's right to due process before she is killed by starvation? ...
Given the country's fetishism about court rulings, this may be a rash assumption, but I presume if Greer had ordered that Terri Schiavo be shot at her husband's request – a more humane death, by the way – the whole country would not sit idly by, claiming to be bound by the court's ruling because of the "rule of law" and "federalism." President Bush would order the FBI to protect her and Gov. Bush would send in the state police.
What was supposed to be the "least dangerous" branch has become the most dangerous – literally to the point of ordering an innocent American woman to die, and willfully disregarding congressional subpoenas. They can't be stopped – solely because the entire country has agreed to treat the pronouncements of former ambulance-chasers as the word of God. The only power courts have is that everyone jumps when they say "jump." (Also, people seem a little intimidated by the black robes. From now on we should make all judges wear lime-green leisure suits.)
President Andrew Jackson is supposed to have said of a Supreme Court ruling he opposed: "Well, John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it." The court's ruling was ignored. And yet, somehow, the republic survived.
If Gov. Jeb Bush doesn't say something similar to the Florida courts that have ordered Terri Schiavo to die, he'll be the second Republican governor disgraced by the illiterate ramblings of a state judiciary. Gov. Mitt Romney will never recover from his acquiescence to the Massachusetts Supreme Court's miraculous discovery of a right to gay marriage. Neither will Gov. Bush if he doesn't stop the torture and murder of Terri Schiavo.
Starved for justice
Ann Coulter
March 23, 2005http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43464
What's the matter ? Truth hurts ?
To: RightMike
Also, I'm sorry to get fired up so much about this folks, but people who simply act like Jeb is a king with all these powers that are unchecked by the courts are over thet op. If this situation were reversed we'd be saying "how can he defy a lawful court order????"
There may be situations where defiance is justifable, but even if it is, it has to be smart. The state agency had local law enforcmeent saying they'd fire back and enforce the court order. Again, I support Terri fully, but having law enforcement dead over it is not the answer. I just simply dont think it is.
326 posted on 03/27/2005 5:43:10 PM EST by RightMike
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Mike, regarding #326... You arguing with yourself???
Hey, Yes, it was "I." (Correct English mind you.)
Were you the one dragging that pineapple by a string along the street on Via España with a sign that read "cara de piña" (pineapple face) attached to it?
Not if the people make a change. If Florida elects politicians who choose liberal judges, I'm afraid they will get a death culture. It's up to the people. Each state has a choice.
Jeb could have sent in an overwhelming contingent of the biggest, burliest state police he could find to physically move the locals aside. They could have marched into Schiavo's room with a competent nurse and doctor in tow and got Terri Schiavo hooked up out of there.
Does anybody truly believe there would have been a gunfight? That local cops would have opened fire on state police?? Please.... Some people watch too much TV.
no, just adding additonal thoughts..:)
If the one you speak of had a Ricky Ricardo mustache (hey, it was still in down there) then yes, I am guilty, "I am Pineapple Face man"...
that's what the local police said. I trust the judgemenet of the state officials that were going in but backed off over you.
There may be situations where defiance is justifable, but even if it is, it has to be smart. The state agency had local law enforcmeent saying they'd fire back and enforce the court order. Again, I support Terri fully, but having law enforcement dead over it is not the answer. I just simply dont think it is."<.i>
So then, who 'checks' the judiciary if they get out of line?
First, Bush whould have got the Pinellas County Sheriff on the line (if Bush was sincere about going in) and told him directly "you have 2 minutes to tell your men to stand down, or you are no longer the Sheriff of Pinnellas County." It is inconceivable to me that the Sheriff does not know who his boss is in this fight.
The Judicail Branch can hold Bush in contempt and try him, and then it comes down to the legislature to impeach Bush if they feel so inclined.
I do not know if it would have been worth it either, but our system of government has checks and balances for a reason and in this case a woman was dying.
Excellent.
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