Posted on 03/25/2005 11:03:34 PM PST by thouworm
Then the Bushes should do something - and we'll stop whining.
I think you are grossly misjudging Jeb Bush's actions and his reasons for obeying the law.
This happened with AIDS years ago, which, when redefined, included groups of people who did not even have to be HIV positive. This skewed not only the total number of people defined as having AIDS (which made for more grant money), but made it appear that significantly more heterosexuals were infected, making a disease which had been predominantly the provenance of homosexuals and needle junkies seem to be more widespread in the general population.
A lesson to be learned is that the terms included in a statute need to be statutorily defined, with great specificity, if need be, and the court must make expert witnesses adhere to these definitions.
Part of the increasing downside of the Orwellian conversion of the English language is that when 'bad means good and good means bad, confusion will inevitably result.
The standard for determining the patient's wishes should be raised, also.
If the patient signs a document which states that no extraordinary means should be used to prolong life, and the specific circumstances in which those mandates apply, that is one thing.
It is quite another to have the bar so low that those close to the patient can collect from the lawsuit and then remember the patient's desire to be terminated by withdrawal of life sustaining measures.
Were someone on a ventilator, they would not be stopped from breathing on their own should they be capable of doing so ( I would hope, anyway!). Terri should be allowed to try to swallow food (applesauce, Gerber's, whatever) and/or water, simply because she might be capable of doing so, and not need the tube.
Both the President and the Fla Gov are in between a rock and a hard place. If either overstep the legal boundaries of their offices, they will be branded as power hungry and having no respect for law (remember, to the DU types, Bush=Hitler,anyway.) If they do nothing, they will be branded as uncaring, for having let Terri die.
The only way Gov. Bush could intervene is to keep public order and remove parties who were in imminent danger, similar to evacuation in the face of a natural disaster or riot. Please, let me be most explicit. I AM NOT advocating a riot. But if such were to occur, there is a small chance, and only a small one that hydration could be administered intravienously during evacuation, and that would probably only prolong Terri's agony.
Extralegal measures such as internet death threats do nothing to strengthen the cause of life, only weaken it.
Ultimately, the decision must reside with the courts. And ultimately, the courts will have to be carefully examined to see what changes need to be made, especially in cases like this.
Why am I not surprized?
I had worked out the inferrence that something crooked was going on inside the Pinneras Co. Court long before I read this.
Follow the money!
Get over it. Jeb Bush is not going to break the law to suit you and your illogical musings. He swore to uphold the law - why would he break the law and cause his own impeachment - that's ignorant.
So .. why don't you stop acting ignorant and blaming Jeb Bush.
Did he "ignore"that evidence or did he properly find that that evidence was not credible?
Absolutely!
And .. what bothers me so much is that lay people can see the obvious obstruction, malfeasance, possible corruption, etc. If we can see it so plainly .. then the court's obvious stance of ignoring it only plays into the theory that they're all in on the deal.
Excuse me .. when you demand that a public official BREAK THE LAW .. I think that's a little too much to ask.
Just keep the requests within the law and it wouldn't be a problem.
I agree with much of what you have said. What really bothers me most at this juncture is something you just mentioned and I posted on other other thread I started a few days ago [and I don't know why there has not been an outcry in editorials about this]:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1369633/posts?page=67#67
He & Michael Schiavo both belie their intent, motives, and prejudiced state of mind by not ordering the hospice to see FIRST if she could eat soft foods and drink by non-artificial means before carrying out the directive to pull the tube. Often, tube feeding is for the convenience of the hospice or home --- too labor intensive to feed by hand, especially if the disability precludes use of a cup or eating utensils.
Why didn't it ever occur to anyone to try! Now that the tube is pulled, how can it be lawful to not try to give her sustenance by non-artificial means. If a ventilator is pulled a person breathes or they don't. Air is present to be inhaled. If a feed tube is pulled, a patient should be presented water and food via a means to ingest it. In Terri's case, a sponge. Why? Because she did it before, and it hasn't been tried since. It may not work now, but how is it possible it has not been attempted as a last resort.
How could he find it not credible when he never even entered it into the record as "not credible".
I've read several reports that say none of the nurses statements were ever entered into the records of the case.
That tells me Greer was picking and choosing the evidence against the husband. I don't know what law he broke - BUT THAT IS A VIOLATION OF HIS OFFICE AS A JUDGE - AND HE'S GOING TO END UP IN VERY BIG TROUBLE FOR IT.
I thought the same thing. Travelgate. First the Judge seals the records, then then they get missplaced.
Judge Greer has accepted donations from Michael Schiavo's attorney the day after his 2003 decision. yet he is still on the case. Judge Greer was also the Guardian of Terri Schiavo, despite the fact that he was the one who would decide her fate.
At this point in time we are told that all he has ordered is the removal of life support, yet there is armed guards denying Terri Schiavo any type of nourishment whatsoever.
We are told that all Judge Greer did was to grant the wishes of Terri Schiavo concerning her wishes that she should not be kept alive by means of artificial life support..... So why is the State of Florida denying people from giving Terri Schiavo water or food that several Nurses say she can eat and drink on her own?
Greer has order cremation as soon as she is dead. No autopsy that might show how she got into that condition. There will be no evidence left. They are covering their tracks by judicial order. I can only hope that their final judge will be just as severe and thorough in His judgment. We reap what we sow.
Among the neglect and abuse complaints is that Michael Schiavo:
Has not allowed therapy or rehabilitation since late 1992.
Has prevented swallowing tests or swallowing therapy since 1993.
Ordered caretakers not to clean Terri's teeth since 1995, resulting in removal of five teeth in April 2004.
Placed Terri in hospice in 2000, despite the fact she is not terminally ill.
Refuses to allow Terri to leave her room. She has not been outside since 2000.
Ordered doctors not to treat Terri when she had a life threatening infection in 1993 and 1995.
===
How absolutely horrible and he is not only getting away with it, but the judge was the willing hitman to kill his wife.
Someone get a picture of her right now!! I want all those in favor of killing her get a good look. POLL THIS!
Right now George Felos is crowing about how he outwitted Bush again. Seems that when the DCF got the order to look into the condition of the woman, that triggered an automatic stay of Greer's orders. But Bush's people didn't realize that: when Greer got wind of it, he issued a countermanding order. But for three hours, Bush could have legally taken her.
There are a million holes in this case, and a million ways to make it go against Greer and Felon. Junior's just got to make one of them work. So far, he hasn't. But politically, he has to. As far as "impeachment", by whom? The Republican State Senate? Give me a break.
So you were a small town cop in Leninist Oregon? Hey, you'd fit right in with the Pinellas Park cops. Right now they're in open rebellion against state law. But you'd be right there with them, right Yahoo? Whee doggie. We is DE LAW. WE GOT DE GUNS, right?
Yer funny. A real riot.
IIRC - a couple of the nurses have stated that they did do a test for the Hospice - with Michael and hospital admin present - and they fed her jello and pudding which she ate with no problem.
Michael threw a fit and said he was not going to pay to have nurses hand feeding her and he ordered the feeding tube. If he was so interested in preserving the money then .. he must have stopped the rehab for the same reason .. after her death he would get what was remaining.
Easily. I understand that some such testimony was disallowed because it wasn't presented in a timely manner even though the witness stated that she had been in regular communication with the Schindlers since the dispute arose.
What I am trying to say is that it may be lawful to pull the tube (per court decision), but it is NOT lawful to NOT feed and hydrate her by NON-artificial means and see if she can take it into her body!!! 6 days ago and even now!!! Why didn't/doesn't anybody see that.
No judge, law, or murderous husband can prevent that -- not then, not now.
Judge Greer is not her Guardian - Terri's husband is her legal guardian.
I do agree with you that there are so many questions in this case that a de novo is the only thing that will hopefully answer them.
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