Jews and Jesus

Townhall ^ | March 24, 2005 | Marvin Olasky

[muir_redwoods]

"...the reason the Jewish leaders killed Jesus was..."

Syrian mercenaries of the Roman Empire killed Jesus, no one else.

[cartoonistx]

[Diego1618]

You are confusing God's Feast Days and Sabbaths which were instituted forever....for all generations, in Leviticus chapter 23 with the civil law of Moses(Deuteronomy 33:4)and Deuteronomy Chapter 27. The Levitical priesthood was also done away with(Hebrews 7:11) and we now have a new High Priest set up by God, not man(Hebrews 8:1).

I cannot find any scripture from Genesis to Revelation that says "God's Holy Days" have been abolished.

[rmlew]

The Sadducees/Zadokim rejected the "Oral Torah". For the last 1300 years, so have Karaites.

[rmlew]

Herod was an Idumean/Edomite theoretically converted to Judaism. He was installed by the Romans and killed of most of the Hamoneans and much of the Sanhedrin. He built gentile towns in Caesaria and Sebastia (the latter over the remains of Samaria) The ethnic strife created by this was the direct cause of the Jewish rovolt three generations later.

[rmlew]

You just have a lot of factual errors here.
Pompey invaded Israel/Judea, taking advantage of a dynastic dispute. After settling the dispute (against the Jon Aristobulus, who invited the Romans), Pompey sacked the Temple.
Julius Caesar made Antipater, the converted Idumean prince, Regent and later elevated his son Herod.
http://www.livius.org/ja-jn/jewish_wars/jwar01.htm
Israel was conquered and divided into three provences (Judea, the Galilee, and the Golan and east bank of the Jordan) http://www.livius.org/ja-jn/jewish_wars/jwar02.html

[rmlew]

ACtually, the Karaites took after the SAdducees/Zadokim.
Karaites are Jews.

[goldstategop]

Interestingly, the Nazis did NOT consider Karaites they encountered in the Russian Caucasus to be Jews. If you're not following the Oral Torah, you're not a Jew, you're a minim. And what separates Jews from every one else is the belief God gave Moses a separate set of teachings to explain what the Written Torah meant.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[rmlew]

Interestingly, the Nazis did NOT consider Karaites they encountered in the Russian Caucasus to be Jews. If you're not following the Oral Torah, you're not a Jew, you're a minim. And what separates Jews from every one else is the belief God gave Moses a separate set of teachings to explain what the Written Torah meant.

You are a little confused. The Nazis killed Eastern European Rabbinic and Karaite Jews. The confusion in Crimea, where two primarily non-Israelite Jewish communities, Karaylar and Krymchaks lived. These Turkic Jews are descended from Khazar and Kipchak converts as well as other Jews. The Karaylar are Crimean Karaites. They divided t hemselves from Jews under the Czars claiming to be Turks of the Mosaic faith. The Nazis continued this. However, the Nazis did consider the Krimchaks (Turkic Rabbinate Jews) to be Jews. Many Karaylar joined Muslim Crimean Tatars in turning over the Krimchaks. After the war, Stalin deported them all. There are virtually no Krymchaks left.

Israel considers all Karaites Jews.

[goldstategop]

Rabbinic Jews are Jews. The others aren't. Orthodox Jews would not consider Karaites Jews, since they don't accept the divine nature of the Oral Torah. I'd put Karaites in the same category as Samaritans, who by the way, are not Jews either.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[rmlew]

If the Sadducees/Tsadokim were Jews, why wouldn't Karaites be?
Conservative/Masorti, Liberal/Reform, and Reconstructionist Jews don't seem to care much for the Oral Law either, but they are Jews.

[goldstategop]

Because the Written Torah can't be observed without some detailed guidance on how exactly to observe it. This is where the Oral Torah comes in. It does that by spelling out the rules. And Jews agree to be bound by it. Karaites don't accept this so they're not regarded as Jews.

Its true non-Orthodox Jews don't slavishly follow every dot, jot and tittle of the Orah Torah but they don't reject it as the Karaites do. They may sin in not observing it completely but they are still Jews since they recognize that from Mount Sinai, the prophet Moses was given two sets of instructions by God and not just the Two Tablets that became known as the Ten Commandments. To use a kal va homer analogy, if it is true Moses brought down Two Tablets with him, then it is all the more so true he brought down with him Two Torahs to guide the Jewish people for all generations.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[killerw]

I know Jewish people who are Christians. They accept that Jesus is the Messiah promised in the scriptures, and that He has risen from the dead. The one who puts his trust in Jesus will know Him, and will have an inner assurance that He is who He says He is. "Taste and see, the Lord is good."



They are called "Messianic Jews". I'm a Gentile that worship at a Messianic Synagogue.

[rmlew]

You didn't answer my question about Zadokim, who held positions similar to the later Karaites.
Do you think that the later Hasmonean High Priests were not Jewish because they rejected the Oral Law as mere traditions?