THE WAY THINGS REALLY WORK: The REAL Military Record of France.

Strategy Page ^ | March 24, 2005 | Harold C. Hutchison

[John Jorsett]

France's military reputation has taken a beating over the last three years due to their attitudes towards Iraq. Whether or not this record is deserved is up for debate. A famous website, set up as a “Google bomb,” so that when one searches for French military victories and hits the “I’m Feeling Lucky” button, takes potshots at France, particularly citing the twentieth century. But the REAL story is much different.

First of all, the Battle of the Virginia Capes, from September 5-9, 1781 was an unambiguous win for France. This is important for Americans to keep in mind – this was the battle that sealed the fate of the British garrison at Yorktown (and thus American independence). So, France has achieved victory at least once, and it mattered big time for the United States.

In the 20th Century, the French record is also much better than some people would lead a person to believe. In World War I, the French did not fold up. If anything, the French carried a lot of the burden of the ground war from 1914-1917, halting the German invasion at the Marne. The French also outfought the Germans at Verdun in 1916, holding the line against a vigorous German offensive.

In 1918, the French forces took part in major offensives in the Balkans and in France itself. Both of those were victories. This came after France played a major part in repelling the powerful 1918 offensive by Germany. In other words, the French did their fair share in World War I. Only natural, since France was where most of the fighting occurred. It was Marshal Ferdinand Foch (commanding French Forces in the Second Battle of Marne) who said, “My center is giving way, I cannot move. Situation excellent, I shall attack.”

In World War II, France is often judged by the 1940 German offensive. This is unfair in some aspects. France had 3 armored divisions – Germany had 10, which was a decisive edge in one of the earliest mechanized campaigns in history. After France surrendered, Free French forces took part in the African battles, and played major roles in Operation Dragoon (the landings in southern France in August, 1944). The French also carried out the liberation of Strasbourg, and took part in the final defeat of Nazi Germany.

Since World War II, France has taken part in the 1956 Suez War, which was a military victory. France only backed off due to political pressure from the United States and USSR. France also did not lose the Algerian War of Independence from 1954-1962 on any battlefield, but instead in terms of politics. The only real loss was the Indochina War, which was highlighted by the Battle of Dien Bien Phu.

France today has a reasonably capable military (they operate the only CVN outside the United States Navy, and the Rafale is one of the best combat aircraft in service at the present time). French forces recently carried out a brilliant operation in Cote d’Ivoire, in which aircraft, that had launched attacks on UN peacekeepers, were quickly and efficiently destroyed.

France has, in these wars, lost as many as two million killed in action. Far more often than not, France has won major battles in the past century, and in some cases, paid a dear price to do so. French military forces have gotten a bit of a bum rap as a result of the weasel-like positions of certain French political leaders. – Harold C. Hutchison (hchutch@ix.netcom.com)

[Alex Marko]

Did you know?.... The French Foreign Legion tried to assassinate a French PM because their government had shunned the military financially and publicly?

[Izzy Dunne]

Yeah, but what have you done for me lately?

[thoughtomator]

The problem is, even when they win they take on all the worst attributes of the enemy.

[ABG(anybody but Gore)]

I've got to get to work, so I'm bumping this for a reply later today...

[massgopguy]

American bomber crews that bailed out over France were routinely executed by French partisans who blamed them for the destruction of their country.

[massgopguy]

American bomber crews that bailed out over France were routinely executed by French partisans who blamed them for the destruction of their country.

[Khuey]

Hey John, tell everyone about the Pro-Vichy units and Operation Torch!

[Sandreckoner]

"French forces recently carried out a brilliant operation in Cote d’Ivoire, in which aircraft, that had launched attacks on UN peacekeepers, were quickly and efficiently destroyed."

What on earth? This "brilliant operation" entailed destroying 2 old Sukhoi 25 jets and 3 helicopters parked on the tarmac at a converted public airport.

[Citizen Tom Paine]

I am replying to this without checking my history books. As I recall the French did all right in conventional war until the Franko-Prussian War of 1870. As a result, the French retrained their army trying to inspire "cran" into it. Cran as I recall means "guts". They were successful. Consequently, in WWI during which the western world learned to industrialize killing on an unprecedented scale- the French generals had their motivated men charge into machine guns until the soldier realized that it was machine gun -100, soldier- 0. Shortly there after, the French army laid down its arms and would not fight. The French medieval generals, and the British generals also, learned nothing concerning the tactics which they should use in the face of machine guns and heavy artillery until the very end of WWI.

The consequence of all this was that he French youngsters had very little enthusiasm for war. Recall that a generation or two had been shot off during the Napoleonic Wars and another generation in WWI. Perhaps they are really just displaying some wisdom.

In closing, there was a saying by an observer about the French army in the latter part of WWI. "The were not very good at fighting, but they were very good at something that sounded a lot like it."

[Fenris6]

In World War II, France is often judged by the 1940 German offensive. This is unfair in some aspects. France had 3 armored divisions – Germany had 10, which was a decisive edge in one of the earliest mechanized campaigns in history.

Thats deceptive. France had THREE military treaties with Poland, all stating that France would come to her aid if she was attacked by Germany. One even spelled out in detail the number of troops she would use and the # of days needed for of mobilization. Germany stripped the Seigfreid line to invade Poland. The Poles fought a losing battle with elan and valor, knowing that they need only hold out for a few days because, per the treaty, French armor would soon be slicing into the heart of Germany.

France never even mobilized.

Everything honorable about France died in the trenches of WWI. Take the French propaganda somewhere else. France always betrays her allies. Every. Single. Time. They are Weasels.

[Mr. Lucky]

While it is technically true that French forces took part in the African battles of World War II, the author could at least be honest enough to point out they they took part in the battles on the side of the Axis.

[Fenris6]

In closing, there was a saying by an observer about the French army in the latter part of WWI. "The were not very good at fighting, but they were very good at something that sounded a lot like it."

In the workup to WWII, Churchill was advised not to worry, that the French Army was matchless. He would soon realize this estimate had a opposite meaning.

[Rodney King]

Everything honorable about France died in the trenches of WWI. Take the French propaganda somewhere else. France always betrays her allies. Every. Single. Time. They are Weasels.

That's right.

[SMARTY]

"France had 3 armored divisions – Germany had 10..."

The source of the real defeat of France and the French Military after WWI... a lack of political will and a government which fully and continuously favored Liberal public opinion so that the Military was not prepared to face the increasingly belligerent and patently overt German mobilization. The German onslaught was a long time coming and a long time ignored by the French government. For that they paid.

This childish French tendency to forever accept the pacifist stance continues. That's THEIR choice. But in the process, they alienate the rest of the free world which may once AGAIN be put in the position of coming to the assistance of France. Why I ask you, should we ever bother again?

[Fenris6]

The consequence of all this was that he French youngsters had very little enthusiasm for war. Recall that a generation or two had been shot off during the Napoleonic Wars and another generation in WWI. Perhaps they are really just displaying some wisdom.

This was continental. The romantic image of warfare was destroyed by WWI, and yet the Brits still managed to muster heroes for the RAF. There is no excuse for France.

[LS]

Unfortunately, the greatest French military leaders were an Italian and a 16-year-old girl.

Just a joke. Charles Martel revolutionized warfare. As I write in "A Patriot's History of the United States," the French victory off New Jersy in 1781---by the way, the ONLY time the French Navy ever defeated the Brits (so how is that for Divine Providence?)---sealed Washington's victory over Cornwallis, no question.

But this is too easy on a French Army that had bigger and more powerful tanks than the Germans in 1940 and which stratigically was utterly blind by hiding behind the Maginot Line when everyone knew that the Belgian border was wide open.

[Fenris6]

This childish French tendency to forever accept the pacifist stance continues.Agreed. What I don't understand is that while the West learned from the failure of Munich, France remains clueless.

[Wuli]

Let them eat frogs.

[PzLdr]

Where to begin? WWI: The French went into World War I wearing blue coats and red pants, secure in the knowledge that the spirit of Attack (read bayonet charge) would carry the day. The Germans preferred machine guns. Advantage German. The French plan for 1914 consisted of an offensive into Alsace- Lorraine and the Ardennes. This matched nicely with the Schlieffen Plan,in which the Germans assumed the French would do what they did (Plan 17). The French, apparently did not reciprocate by factoring German moves into their plan. Result, a revolvinjg door from the Dutch node to the Swiss border, with the French swinging (generally) northeast, the Germans southwest, then south east then east. Result, the Germans almost drive to Paris, but becuse of Moltke the Younger's interference, have to shorten their line and pass east of the city. A gap opines between Von Kluck and his neighbor, and Ge. Gallieni (good French name)hits the gap, forcing the Germans back. The French offensive? Stopped in its tracks.

Verdun was a DESIGNED battle of attrition-by Falkenhayn, then Chief of the Imperial General Staff. The french fought well, and outlasted the Germans, but the Germans called the tune on that one.And in reciting other French victories, let's not forget the idiocy of the Somme, and the French Army mutinies that followed.

WWII. One of the great canards of the Second World War is that the Germans took France in 1940 because they had more tanks. Not true. In point of fact, the Allies had more tanks than the Germans, and some, the Souma for exemplar, were tank for tank better. What the French DIDN'T have was a modern armor doctrine to go with the tanks. Yes they only had four armored divisions. But most of their armor was parceled out in infantry support. The equipment advantages the Germans did have were in aircraft and anti-tank guns. Plus their combat doctrine was light years ahead of the French; and, as in World War I, the German battle plan anticipated what the Allies would do (move into Belgium, and used it to their advantage (Ardennes).

Were there notable French successes in WW II? Yes, Bir Hacheim, and Cassino come to mind. Post World War II? Some success in Viet Nam early on, but that's about it.France hit the height of it's military glory in 1805 - 1806. They are, after all, a country whose greatest warrior was a woman, and whose greatest general was really Italian.