SCHIAVO INTERVENTION ENDS

The Hill ^ | 3/23/05

[Peach]

It IS the same doctor that Jeb Bush mentioned today in his press conference as having new information.

And ABC read from his report and used the doctor's own words.

[A Citizen Reporter]

"And ABC read from his report and used the doctor's own words."

Then you didn't read the afadavit. Because they are not his own words.

[Smartaleck]

According to another CA case he wasn't in a PVS.

"Remember that, inDrabick, the patient in a pvs state *****whereas Robert Wendland was conscious although incompetent.*******
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:o2W0eCQS3uEJ:www.zollalaw.com/101002OUTLINE.PDF+Robert+Wendland+pvs&hl=en

Not that same as Terri. It's interesting to note, this is a case about limiting famial decisions....MS took himself out of Terri's decision.

Of greater significance it looks like you've been suckered into believing a myth. Many of the Google search results indicate that a DR. Crawford declared Wendland in a PVS and also examined Terri.

Dr. Crawford answered the assertions, in response to an inquiry stating....

"As for the National Review Online article, I stand by my record. ******The record is very clear that I did not testify that Robert Wendland was in a PVS******"

Peach, you will also find additional info on the Doc's participation in Terri's case. He talks about the various testing done and which is more accurate.
http://pekinprattles.blogspot.com/2005/03/schiavo-dr-cranford-offers-reply.html

Sorry OrdinaryGuy........nice try.

[Texas2step]

And you will notice in that answer that I did answer your question, you just didn't like the answer.

Maybe I didn't notice. Would you mind showing me, I'm a bit slow on the uptake. Exactly what did you say MS's motivation for killing Terri was?

And, did you address the double standard issue? You know, you taking MS at his word, but critizing others for believing the expert opionion's of others. If you did, I missed that as well.

While we're here, perhaps you'd spell out how it's okay for you to get info from "Internet sources" (what the Schindler's were going to do to Terri, keeping her alive regardless of her wishes, knowing she was PVS, etc., but it's not okay for others to use "Internet sources" to condemn MS's actions, trying to kill Terri, affidavits of nurses, etc.

Can you align these positions for me? I'm having a tough time seeing it...

'preciate it.

[Texas2step]

Then you didn't read the afadavit. Because they are not his own words.

b-b-but, if ABC said it, it must be true.
/sarcasm

[Texas2step]

******The record is very clear that I did not testify that Robert Wendland was in a PVS******"

Ah, nice safe answer. ...did not testify... So, he wasn't under oath when he made those statements? Reminds me of a former president of ours.

[JOE43270]

The courts are the Problem. They need to follow the Constitution of the United states of America and all the Amendments. The Courts need to do this and use United nations documents.

[GOP_Thug_Mom]

First of all, what is PVS? 43% of those diagnosed as being PVS are misdiagnosed.

Second, is she alive? Because if she were a vegetable, they'd cut her up and put her in a salad, and no one would be upset.

Do you see the "Right-to-Life" connection here yet??

[Carolinamom]

Shiavo intends to keep control of Terri's ashes and "dispose" of them in Pennsylvania. Pure spite IMO towards her parents who won't even have their daughter's ashes.

[Peach]

Only so far as you may wish to stir up trouble where none is intended.

And where did you get your 43% of PVS is misdiagnosed; do you have a link?

Google Persistent Vegetative Status.

[Peach]

All of these answers can be found in my post above which you said you read (Post #339?).

Your question regarding motivation for MS:

1. In 1993, Terri's doctors recommended to Michael that he remove the tube. This is done all the time in this nation.

He didn't want to do that because he thought it was cruel. He then saw his parents go through it so by 1998(?) and they had a painless time so he said ok.

But still he didn't want to be the final arbiter of this and went to the court and asked THEM to make the determination. The Courts noted in their decision he didn't have to do this and effectively weakened his own position by doing so. (I have the exact words in the link to the court decision).

#6. The Schindlers tried in the early 90's to care for their daughter and returned her to rehab shortly after because they were overwhelmed (their word). There is no reason to believe that 13 years older they are better capable of caring for Terri this time.

#7. The Schindlers testified under oath that they would be willing to see Terri undergo multiple amputations should she get diabetes from loss of circulation. They also said that no matter what she wants, they want to keep her alive.

#8. No honorable man who knows his wife is PVS is going to stand by and watch her get carved up. In my opinion.

And I will add, regardless of whether YOU believe Michael, the courts did after he testified under oath and was subject to cross examination. Standing with Terri watching a relative die who was hooked up to machines and watching a movie, she said "Don't let that happen to me." Most of us who have stood by such a bedside can relate to that. He is trying to carry out her wishes.



Regarding believing MS who courts have found credible and testified under oath and was subject to cross examination vs the internet experts:

#10. Now we have nurses and others coming out of the woodwork saying that they know Terri isn't PVS because (insert blabbering). It's amazing that they never told thsi to the Schindlers! They have written affadavits (if these people are even nurses...most of this is over the internet).

So some freepers think we should believe unsourced material over the internet but not court documents and witnesses that were subject to cross examination under oath.

Re why it's okay for me to accept internet sources:

Perhaps you have not understood my previous posts on this matter or seen them. With the exception of one newspaper article which merely re-stated what the Schindlers testified to under oath, I have relied on court transcripts and four Guardian al litem reports.

So I have not accepted unverified internet sources who are not testifying under oath, we don't even know if those people are nurses or doctors and they were not subject to cross examination.

[GOP_Thug_Mom]

And where did you get your 43% of PVS is misdiagnosed; do you have a link?

Doctor on Fox News last night--forgot his name. Just remembered the number.

For the record, I'd like to say I'm proud of my aunt who taught me compassion as a child by taking care of her "vegetables", Lisa and Jenny, who couldn't walk, talk, sit up, feed themselves, etc. She carried them around until they were too big to carry, and then some wonderful nuns with a home for disabled children took care of them for her. She saw them every weekend, and one died at age 36, and the other one made it to the age of 41. I visited their gravesites 3 years ago after traveling to a family reunion.

[Peach]

Did they have brain activity? Did they have any ability to move their bodies?

I'm sorry to hear about those children and bless you for taking care of them.

But I've seen the most ridiculous comparisons to PVS made known to man. Some people have said that maybe we'll start killing off the Christopher Reeves or the people on dialysis.

There is simply no comparison to those examples and PVS. None.

[GOP_Thug_Mom]

By the way, how many court cases have you sat in on? I've seen more insanity "from the bench" than I ever dreamed possible over the last twenty years. "Renegade Judges" is an understatement!

[GOP_Thug_Mom]

They had no ability to move themselves. Their heads hung when you picked them up. half of the food they were fed came back out of their mouths. But that was before tubes were stuck into people's stomachs for convenience's sake. If they would've lived today and had tubes so it would be easier and less messy to feed them, that would have been deemed keeping them alive by "artificial means", and their lives would have been in danger.

[sarasmom]

Peach, I am tired of you masking your unbridled support for forced Euthanasia as a "right to die with dignity" issue.
This is not a "right to die with dignity " without death prolonging unwanted and extreme medical intervention situation.
Terri Schiavo is NOT dying from any terminal disease or condition.Sh is dying from forced starvation.
She is severely and permanently mentally disabled and no one expects Terri Schiavo to eventually get a job flipping burgers, adjudicating law, mowing grass, or cleaning a hotel room.
This is about, as you well know, giving the right to execute by starvation, those designated "useless eaters" by the government.
I personally spent eight of the best and most fruitful years of my life, sworn to government military service, to protect and defend this country and its people, with my life as needed.
Peach,If I had known then that this society would devolve to the point where people like you would feel free to agitate for the government enforced death of a severely brain damaged but not otherwise dying citizen by starvation...
Eat, drink, and be merry Peach.
But know you are just rudely treading on Terri Schiavo's hem.
IMNSHO.

[Treasa]

Your points are well taken and I truly appreciate your veiw.
I wish I had the ability to express myself as clearly as you've done here but I can't. I hope you will at least consider that it's possible all the evidence isn't in.
Terri will not live forever, at worst she could go on oblivious to her own condition.
What is so dignified in starving to death?
In my mind I seriously can't consider food & water being extordinary means...to me once it was given, the Husband in essence gave his permission. In my mind, It isn't up to him now.

[Peach]

Right. Take a hike. Educate yourself a litte and don't ever post to me again.

[Texas2step]

And absolutely nothing about MS's motivation. Just a bunch of words you dug up somewhere.

Regarding believing MS who courts have found credible and testified under oath

I believe there's only been one court who ruled his testimony as credible. Judge Greer to be exact. On top of that, there's some conflicts of interest at a minimum.

So, it's still you taking this man's word that Terri even ever suggested she'd like to be starved to death. Period. Under oath, not under oath, whatever, it's one man's word about what he says his wife said.

But, go ahead, criticize all you want.

Still nothing about his motivation. What is Michael's motivation for killing Terri? Out of his undying love for her? Please! He wants what's best for Terri? Yeah, right!

So, no you have not adequately answered either of my two major questions. You regurgitate something you dug up somewhere, but you're not answering my questions.

Here, I'll make it easy for you, you can cut and paste...

What is MS's motivation for killing Terri? Something credible, this time...

What, beside's MS's word, do you have to show what Terri's wishes are?

I'm sorry, Judge Greer may find MS credible, but I think he's a sorry, lying sack of excretement.

Now, let's try that again.

[GatorGirl]

Thanks for the response, the cribbage game awaits!

I am a Florida licensed attorney. I am VERY familiar with the case, I knew about it well before it made news, and I am personally acquainted with some of the names you would recognize from the case.

I will respond later point by point to your points and reiterate:

1) Why shouldn't she undergo a new round of tests and/or therapy? After all, technology has changed significantly sincer her earlier efforts at therapy. At that point, I think alot of people supporting the parents would come to grips with it.

2) Why is Michael so hell-bent on killing her? Couldn't he just divorce her?

Enjoy the cribbage, The Incredibles awaits me!!! GG