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Posted on 03/23/2005 4:42:39 AM PST by Jeff Head
PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - After losing two consecutive appeals in federal court, Terri Schiavo's parents vowed Wednesday to take their fight to the U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) as their severely brain-damaged daughter began her fifth full day without the feeding tube that has kept her alive for more than a decade.
In a 2-1 ruling early Wednesday, a panel of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta said the parents "failed to demonstrate a substantial case on the merits of any of their claims" that Terri's feeding tube should be reinserted immediately.
"There is no denying the absolute tragedy that has befallen Mrs. Schiavo," the ruling said. "We all have our own family, our own loved ones, and our own children. However, we are called upon to make a collective, objective decision concerning a question of law."
In his dissent, Judge Charles R. Wilson said Schiavo's "imminent" death would end the case before it could be fully considered. "In fact, I fail to see any harm in reinserting the feeding tube," he wrote.
This is a sad day not only for Terry and her family .. but also for our country
I believe the Governor would be within his rights to order it done immediately so that the object of the protective services investigation (Terri) is in fact protected while that investigation goes on.
Amen, yes it is. See my post 102. There is still hope, there are still open avenues.
Perhaps a lawyer can address the question of why there is no way to undo the effects of this judicial dictatorship-within-the-courtroom.
I'm not sure he can do that
If a judge is complicit in using his judicial powers to thwart and ongoing investigtion, in essence obstruction of justice, I believe the Governor and the Attorney General have recourse. I believe they can take her into protective custody or get another Judge to issue an order to that effect. They must do this type of thing NOW IMHO. If it causes a constitutional crisis in Florida, so be it. There already is one and it is creeping along undermining the entire society as evidenced by these horrid proceedings.
Time to take it into the open and protect Terri at the same time.
Maybe you can condense the hoorah(Schiavo) down into a couple of sentences for me..
Done, done and done. (thank you for the links)
The husband indicated early on that he would rehabilitate his wife and filed a civil suit on her behalf and won over a million dollars to do just that. Soon after winning he stopped all rehabilitative efforts and has since sued for her death.
The husband has for ten years lived with another woman out of wedlock and has two kids by her and will not divorce Terri...instead insists that she die, remembering eight years after the fact that, oh ya, she did tell him she would not want to live like this even though there is no living will or legal instrument to that effect.
The parents want to care for their daughter and are willing to assume all responsibility of doing so.
There are monetary support ties between the ruling Judge and the lawyers and friends of the husband. Where they have supported him financially, but he will not recuse himself.
The woman is not a vegetable. She tracks with her eyes, responds to people entering the room. Brain damaged no doubt, but not on traditional life support, only a feeding tube.
That's a nutshell as I understand it.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
If a law mandates injustice, we are obligated to break it, to resist it, to ignore it, and to eliminate it.
Thank you all for wading through all the "garbage" with your intelligent, common sense comments. You have said it all.
Some may be hard to interpret as such...others, such as what is happening to Terri IMHO, are as plain as day.
Governor Bush,
For the love of God, take Terri into protective custody. Base it on the effectual obstruction of justice that Greer has in essence committed in denying protective care to Terri while the state protective service abuse investigation regarding her is ongoing and until that investigation is complete.
The very object of that investigation is to PROTECT TERRI. This cannot happen if she dies. Greer has trampled separation in his comments regarding the request. Either get another Judge to issue the order and use that to take her into protective custody, or act on your executive authority and constitutional standinge as Governor.
Sincerely,
Jeff Head
I see.. thanks...
Does have ramifications for a husband/wifes rights in "normal" circumstances.. for determining the disposition in like occurances... This situation could affect a spouse in many ways.. a nighmare really.. add to that "some bucks" and onlookers might go bonkers trying decypher the story..
You "step" on HIS rights as a husband it will affect all husbands rights for future events, or wifes rights too.. Sticky thing it is.. Seems to me just let it go its natural track.. else Terris life could cause more harm than her death would.. long term harm..
The husband has it over the legal system no matter how much of a puke he is.. Terri married him, choices have consequences.. should be the same with a wife.. unless a living will is involved.. The case should be more about having a will than in obstructing a husbands choice for somebody he "loves".. whatever that means.. Since nobody has ever really died since Adam and Eve anyway.. Everyone has eternal life.. its a matter of where you spend your time..
Course I could be wrong. God I hope not..
I do not agree on the importance of this case. It is critically important. The "husband" gave up his spousal rights as far as I am concerned the moment he began living in an adulterous relationship with the other woman and having kids by her. The custodial rights should have passed to the parents at that point IMHO. As a result of this, I see no future threat to true spousal rights.
Terri is alive, aware of her surroundings and brain damaged. Short of absolute compelling evidence that she would want to be starved and dehydrated to death in these circumstances, she should be kept alive, particularly when she has parents who will assume all responsibility for it.
Otherwise, we progress substantially the culture of death in our society and that will do immeasurable harm in the long run.
Just my opinion.
I am sick at my stomach, to be frank. I'm not afraid for her, death isn't the end, and death isn't to be feared. I am more afraid for what this means, for what this case reveals about the moral state of affairs among the living.
I looks very much to me, too, that the "high priests of secularism" are here defending their temple, their dogma, against contamination by the non-priestly caste. And yet the law given by our Constitution is an expression of the will of the people -- not the general will (which is all you can ever get from illegitimate judges in violation of their own oaths of office) -- and is supposed to secure the people's inalienable rights, preeminently that of life, liberty, and property. Law is the means to an end, not an end in itself. The end is justice. But there is absolutely no justice in this barbaric episode. These men evidently have no conscience, and feel no shame whatsoever.
Dear marron, it is good to be reminded of the truths of your next paragraph, that death is not the end; the Lord is our Living God who loves Terri, so all will be well with her even if this murderous plot against her life should succeed. Your second point is also totally on the mark, IMO, and speaks to my own deep concerns: "I am more afraid for what this means, for what this case reveals about the moral state of affairs among the living...."
I've seen polls that indicate that something like 70% of the public doesn't see any problem with what is happening to Terri, and only something like 30% are able to perceive the hideous judicial murder being perpetrated on her by her "husband" in collusion with the Courts. Seventy percent have apparently indicated that if it were their own spouse under the same circumstances as Terri, they would "pull the plug."
Jeff Head spoke earlier about virtue, quoting extensively from our Framers and Founders to the effect that a people lacking in virtue cannot long maintain their liberty. Now we see that an unvirtuous people may not long maintain their life either. Once you start having "experts" setting themselves up as judges of who is fit to live or die based on their own subjective "quality of life" criteria, then no one's safe.
The fact that judges have imposed a death sentence on an innocent human being sickens me to my core. But this second point fills me with profound fear and dread about our American future. Kiddos, read the tea leaves: The camel's nose is 'way under the tent here. (And as the proverb continues, "very soon he will be in bed with you."...) These usurpers have got to be stopped, or plenty more will be dying soon. And it is up to We the People to restrain them; for certainly they cannot or will not restrain themselves.
The fact that judges have imposed a death sentence on an innocent human being sickens me to my core. But this second point fills me with profound fear and dread about our American future. Kiddos, read the tea leaves: The camel's nose is 'way under the tent here. (And as the proverb continues, "very soon he will be in bed with you."...) These usurpers have got to be stopped, or plenty more will be dying soon. And it is up to We the People to restrain them; for certainly they cannot or will not restrain themselves.
Should be required reading (over and over, along with all supporting facts, until they are comprehended) for every adult American.
Thank you, betty.
So, if state legislatures were to enact immoral laws - say, laws allowing the death penalty for crimes committed by children - you'd say the federal courts ought to overturn them?
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There are those issues which are difficult to interpret. For example, I do not believe it to be immoral for a calculating cold blooded murdere who is 16 or 17 year old to be executed. So I do not believe that is one of theses issues where the judges should change things...despite your clear efforts to draw such an analogy...particularly when they refer to international entities as part of the basis for correcting it and whenthey pull the rulings out of thin air.
I am saying that there are clear cut examples when common decency and virtue must rise to the occassion. If it does not, then we will face times like we did as a nation when Dread Scott was the law of the land and we ultimately paid for that reasoning with a million lives to correct it, among other things that transpired in that time frame.
I believe that this case with Terri Schiavo is representative of such an issue...I believe abortion is even more so, where 42 million innocent human lives have been sacrificed. You may disagree...that is your right. But unless we as a society get a handle on virtue and common decency once again, those are the kinds of places we are heading. And yes, I believe when a law maker, or judge, or executive, any of the three branches sees such an obvious constitutional and moral wrong, then it is their duty to correct it.
The battle then goes to the people who have the power to vote in new legislatures and executives who appoint new judges, etc.. In the mean time the clear moral violation (ie killing Terri) is vouchsafed for a good period).
There will be and are those who try to use the same arguements for things other than moral clarity or constitutional issues from my perspective, like saving the grub worm over people. I clearly disagree with such notions and fight them when they raise their heads...just as I am attempting to fight this horrid issue.
If you feel differently, then fight the other side, you are free to do so.
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