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To: bjs1779
Sorry but I've been speaking with my family on this issue. My father is a pastor (conservative Southern Baptist) and even he believes that this has just gone too far. To tell the truth I was shocked when he weighed in on that side of the issue. But his stance made sense. There's a time when we have to allow God's Will to be done, no matter how much we might not like it. Does God's Will including allowing someone to die, even with some pain involved? Or does God's Will include keeping someone alive even past the point that it's reasonably feasible they may no longer even be there? I don't know and I'm not going to question. Do I personally want this woman to die? No. But I also know you can take any point to an extreme. I hold the highest sanctity for life. But I also hold a respect for God and know if it's her time to go, He will allow it. As a Christian, my view is it's not our place to continue to hold onto a life when we know full well that person is no longer there. I just don't believe the anecdotal evidence that her parents have reported. I think it's a family wanting to hold on so much it hurts. The report to Jeb Bush states clearly the family would want this woman kept alive even if they knew she had a living will, that they would act against her wishes to keep her alive.

But that's my two cents. And I know I wouldn't want to make this decision because I can see Biblical principles on both sides and both sides of the family hurting in their own way

2,718 posted on 03/21/2005 8:30:40 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: billbears

Mr. Schindler said tonight, VERY CLEARLY, HAD TERRI HAD A WRITTEN DOCUMENT, STATING HER WISHES, THEY WOULD NOT BE DOING THIS. "There would be NOTHING they could do about that."


2,728 posted on 03/21/2005 8:33:38 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: billbears

What you are saying is fine when someone is DYING. She is brain damaged. Not PVS, not comatose, not vegetative, BRAIN DAMAGED. She feels, she's aware, she cries and laughs, and shes neglected by that KILLER husband of hers. That woman is nothing like what you hear in the media. Mikeys crimes are finally coming out and I hope Terri lives to see him pay for what he and Felos have done to her. She deserves that. She deserves HER LIFE.


2,738 posted on 03/21/2005 8:36:34 PM PST by Lovergirl (Terri..I don't personally know you but I love you. God please save Terri. ..TERRI IS THIRSTY.)
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To: billbears

Terri,and all of us, will eventually die of "something"

(heart attack, pneumonia, blood clot, aneurysm, stroke, etc.)

We're just trying to make sure it's not by STARVATION.

Which would be MURDER. Is that so hard for you to understand?


2,739 posted on 03/21/2005 8:36:44 PM PST by Collier
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To: billbears
I always thought of you as a fair person back on the old Civil War threads and I will continue to think that until you prove me otherwise. Did you ever see this video of Terri?

Terri with her father video

2,741 posted on 03/21/2005 8:37:13 PM PST by bjs1779 (I fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she swallowed and enjoyed immensely" Cna H.Law 1997)
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To: billbears
What if she's awake and aware as the Schindlers doctors state she is.

And there's not just a little pain. It's horrific enough that morphine is given.

2,744 posted on 03/21/2005 8:38:58 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Life support. canned, frozen or fresh, it's good for you!)
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To: billbears

God gives everyone free will, which includes free will to do bad things. If Terri Schiavo is denied nutrition and hydration -- we're not talking about ventilators here -- and starves and dehydrates to death as a result, that does not mean that God willed her to die, any more than God willed that little girl in Florida to be kidnapped and murdered. Just because God allows bad things to happen does not mean He wants them to happen. Terri is severely disabled, but her health is sound EXCEPT for the fact that she is being starved and dehydrated to death. The idea that this is somehow "God's will" is perverse and not at all in keeping with Southern Baptist theology, about which I know a great deal. (Yes, i know your father is a minister, but, sorry, he's flat-out wrong about the Schiavo case. I suspect he's been misled about the facts, perhaps by the MSM. This is not a case about a brain dead person on life support.)


2,746 posted on 03/21/2005 8:39:12 PM PST by utahagen
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To: billbears

If God wanted Terri to die He would take her.

This is just plain murder.

Michael is a psychopath who had his parents starved to death, and Terri's two beloved cats euthanized, even though Terri's parents said they would take them.

Nourishment and hydration are not extraordinary means; they are ordinary means.


2,749 posted on 03/21/2005 8:39:39 PM PST by Sun (Visit www.theEmpireJournal.com * Pray for Terri. Pray to end abortion.)
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To: billbears

God's will is one thing, but starving someone until they die does not sound like God's will to me, that sounds like murder. Had God decided that it is Terri's time to come to Heaven, He could have done it at any time, feeding tube or not. I am not professing to know God's plan, I know that Terri could be part of a plan God has and that we don't understand...but no one has the right to take away someone's right to live but God. I believe that God would want us to take a stand against those trying to act as if they are HIM.


2,759 posted on 03/21/2005 8:40:56 PM PST by LegalEagle61
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To: billbears

I hold the highest sanctity for life. But I also hold a respect for God and know if it's her time to go, He will allow it.

I don't know how you could possibly see it that way. This isn't about artificially keeping a woman alive against God's wishes, but killing her because of man's wishes. If God wanted her dead and to come home, she wouldn't have lasted this long after her injuries, much less lasting this long without food and water. Our choice to kill a human being by starvation and dehydration doesn't mean that God approves.


2,763 posted on 03/21/2005 8:42:01 PM PST by kenth
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To: billbears

Terri declared on Friday twice that she wanted to live. Too bad the cops immediately went into coverup mode and the feeding tube was pulled before Terri's declarations were known to everyone outside of Hospice. She doesn't need Michael Schiavo to speak for her. She knew on Friday that they were going to try to kill her again and Terri said "yeah" when asked if she wanted to live. Terri knows what attempted murder is and she doesn't want to die. Not me projecting, Terri screamed when she found out the tube was coming out.


2,768 posted on 03/21/2005 8:44:29 PM PST by floriduh voter (www.theempirejournal.com BUST GREER, READ TRUTH ABOUT TERRI'S CASE)
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To: billbears

I appreciate your honesty but I feel that we should take care of our loved ones...we don't throw them away or hide them and keep them from having rehabilition. Terri has been hidden away, her money has been stolen and this is the third murder attempt on her life by her husband. Her husband should be behind bars for his abuse and neglect of his wife but instead, he found a Judge to carry out his wishes for state sanctioned murder and if this isn't bad enough, one of us or a loved one could be next. This is murder most foul.


2,790 posted on 03/21/2005 8:49:07 PM PST by ruoflaw
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To: billbears
But that's my two cents. And I know I wouldn't want to make this decision because I can see Biblical principles on both sides and both sides of the family hurting in their own way

If someone is on a ventilator and it is removed, and they survive, one can reasonably believe that's God's will. And if they die, that's God's will. But if someone removes the ventilator and follows that up by putting a pillow over the person's face to ensure they don't start breathing, that's not God's will.

If the parents were allowed to attempt to feed Terri orally and succeeded, that would be God's will. And one could argue that if they attempted to feed orally but Terri couldn't swallow, that would be God's will. But when all oral feeding is forbidden, that's Michael's will.

2,799 posted on 03/21/2005 8:52:48 PM PST by supercat ("Though her life has been sold for corrupt men's gold, she refuses to give up the ghost.")
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To: billbears
"Because I can see Biblical principles on both sides"

What "Biblical pricipals" do you see on Michael Schiavo's side?

2,803 posted on 03/21/2005 8:53:47 PM PST by Pajamajan (And if God will send His angels, and if God will send a sign, will everything be alright? Pray4Terri)
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To: billbears
I'm sorry. I disagree. There is NO biblical principle supporting removal of nutrition from a handicapped person thus condemning them to death.

When I was hungry, you fed me.

When I was thirsty, you gave me drink.

When you do this to the least of these, you do it to me.

Sound familiar?

2,808 posted on 03/21/2005 8:54:39 PM PST by PleaseNoMore
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To: billbears

No. But I also know you can take any point to an extreme. I hold the highest sanctity for life. But I also hold a respect for God and know if it's her time to go, He will allow it.


Please look at the whole picture. What has been done and why and what HASSENT BEEN DONE AND WHY. If some one withholds food and water from you you will die. To do this to a helpless person does not seem like the work of God to me.


2,828 posted on 03/21/2005 9:00:19 PM PST by icu2 (I think it is here.)
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To: billbears

Water: The Elixir of Life
Dr. John Skorusa

Need For Water

Water is a human necessity for optimal health. Along with food and oxygen, water is one of the basic ingredients for sustaining life. The human body can survive about 40 days without food, but can only survive about 4 days without water.>>>

So let me guess, the judge will rule for the tube to be put back in when it's just a little too late for Terri ....


2,842 posted on 03/21/2005 9:04:31 PM PST by Selkie (Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.)
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To: billbears

Here's my respose to your post 2718

Before her feeding tube was pulled Terri was just as terminal as I am. We're all going to die. But she is in no immediate danger of dying.

They pulled her feeding tube. How would you like it if someone sewed your lips shut tonight. Same thing. They are not allowing her to die. They are killing her by starvation. She wouldn't be dying otherwise.

You say she's no longer here. Ther are plenty of links in this thread that will disprove that if you'd like to read them.


3,074 posted on 03/21/2005 10:39:15 PM PST by valleygal
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