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America’s Has-Been Economy
Chronicles ^ | Friday, March 18, 2005 | Paul Craig Roberts

Posted on 03/20/2005 8:11:01 AM PST by A. Pole

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To: Willie Green
The proportiom used for defense cannot be separated from other purposes since it shares the same production infrastructure.

So, if we use 1 million tons a year for defense we need tariffs and regulations to protect the entire 101.5 million tons of productive capacity?

261 posted on 03/21/2005 1:37:31 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Maybe it's not the Alinsky Method. Maybe you appear ridiculous because you are ridiculous!!!)
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To: FreedomPoster
You don't know what you're talking about. Why post as if you do?

It's a protectionist thing. Facts don't matter. Just say "We don't make anything here" often enough and it becomes true.

262 posted on 03/21/2005 1:38:51 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Maybe it's not the Alinsky Method. Maybe you appear ridiculous because you are ridiculous!!!)
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To: 1rudeboy
Yes, a custom LOL key would help you avoid carpal tunnel syndrome from all that typing...


Wait a minute. I thought the British Empire was protectionist. LOL
48 posted on 02/23/2005 11:42:13 AM PST by 1rudeboy

How can this be? LOL
4 posted on 03/05/2005 8:39:51 AM PST by 1rudeboy

Oh really? LOL
45 posted on 02/19/2005 7:26:41 AM PST by 1rudeboy

LOL. Do you even know what Wal-Mart is? Can't tell from the above.
63 posted on 03/13/2005 5:18:07 AM PST by 1rudeboy
263 posted on 03/21/2005 1:42:47 PM PST by hedgetrimmer
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To: investigateworld
But the free market decided the horses pulling cabs in London were more useful than the Irish farmers, hence the grain went to them.

That is why the greedy freemarketeers can go to Hell (as many of them will).

264 posted on 03/21/2005 1:42:57 PM PST by A. Pole (Proverbs 26:11: "As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.")
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To: Toddsterpatriot
So, if we use 1 million tons a year for defense we need tariffs and regulations to protect the entire 101.5 million tons of productive capacity?

According to Adam Smith, it is justifiable to levy the tariff as compensation for the burden of regulation even if we didn't use ANY for national defense purposes.

265 posted on 03/21/2005 1:43:59 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: Willie Green

So, how much tariff would be fair? And how much extra cost to steel users is okay to protect 170,000 jobs?


266 posted on 03/21/2005 1:47:01 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Maybe it's not the Alinsky Method. Maybe you appear ridiculous because you are ridiculous!!!)
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To: hedgetrimmer
"The free trade lobby going after the illegal immigrant labor force has actually reinvigorated slavery in America!"

Exactly what I have been thinking as I watch the apologists who want the U.S. to absorb every illegal who crosses our borders. Many churches are also zealously incouraging giving money to help the illegal immigrants. It seems that the dirty secret of the industries near our borders, is that they are enjoying the profits made on the backs of the "illegal immigrant slaves" who are crossing our borders.

267 posted on 03/21/2005 1:47:17 PM PST by all4one (My thoughts and prayers are with our soldiers.....and their families)
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To: A. Pole
That is why the greedy freemarketeers can go to Hell (as many of them will).

Freemarketeers will go to hell because the British starved the Irish?

Still no luck proving Japan's planning worked better that our lack of planning, huh?

268 posted on 03/21/2005 1:51:01 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Maybe it's not the Alinsky Method. Maybe you appear ridiculous because you are ridiculous!!!)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
Excellent point!
While I believe it is in our national interest to retain our manufacturing base here, the problem comes from who's going to decide what the national interest is.
By way of illustration, one of the bottle necks of aircraft production during WWII was the precision bearings they require. A Swedish owned firm here in the states, should have jumped into the breech, but the owners in Sweden, not wishing to annoy the Nazis, diddled and dawed so to speak*.
Again, our masters have decided they know better, and Japan is our largest supplier of precison bearings (and Korea is catching up)

*Not to make fun of the Swedish Underground: Many of their members waited till the wee hours of the morning to give dirty looks to the Nazi troop trains passing through to occupation duty in Norway.
And the Swedish railway dining room attendants were firm in enforcing the "No Free Refill Policy" to the Nazi guests.
269 posted on 03/21/2005 1:51:22 PM PST by investigateworld (Another California Refugee in Oregon)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
So, how much tariff would be fair? And how much extra cost to steel users is okay to protect 170,000 jobs?

There's no need to micromanage the economy in that fashion, especially since excessive regulatory burdens apply to ALL domestic industries. The proper way to address the issue is to levy a relatively low (10~15%), flat-rate "revenue tariff" on ALL imported goods. And to further encourage investment in domestic production with a corresponding reduction in the corporate income tax.

The First Federal Revenue Law

On April 8, James Madison, once again a congressman from Virginia, addressed the House. He went right to the point. Congress, he said, must "remedy the evil" of "the deficiency in our Treasury." He argued that "[a] national revenue must be obtained," but not in a way "oppressive to our constituents." He then proposed that the House adopt legislation, virtually identical to the unimplemented Confederation tariff, imposing a five-percent tariff on all imports....

...A single, uniform tariff, he insisted, had two advantages. First, it could be imposed quickly, which was important because "the prospect of our harvest from the Spring importations is daily vanishing." Second, it was consistent with the principles of free trade ("commercial shackles," he said, "are generally unjust, oppressive, and impolitic")


270 posted on 03/21/2005 1:55:50 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
Freemarketeers will go to hell because the British starved the Irish?

Because they worship the evil idol Mammon.

271 posted on 03/21/2005 1:56:17 PM PST by A. Pole (Proverbs 26:11: "As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.")
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To: hedgetrimmer
Because I am comparing the statements made by the two of you to those made by Karl Marx. LOL LOL LOL
272 posted on 03/21/2005 2:02:54 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Toddsterpatriot

we already have an imported light truck tariff in the US - it has helped to, shall we say, "encourage" all these foreign auto maker truck plants to be built in the US - as opposed to having the trucks imported from Thailand, where Japan has large light truck capacity.

So tell us, who has been "crushed" by the current light truck tariff? the US consumer? the US consumer is buying light trucks in record numbers over the past decades that the tariff has been in place. New plants are being built in the US to employ americans at both the end stage and at the supplier level - and why shouldn't they be, since the market for those truck sales is right here.

so where is the evidence that the light truck tariff isn't working?


273 posted on 03/21/2005 2:06:43 PM PST by oceanview
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To: oceanview

The light truck tariff has been in effect since, what, 1980? And when did those foreigners start building truck plants here?


274 posted on 03/21/2005 2:10:16 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

The point is, the Japanese just started getting into those segments - they never competed there until somewhat "recently" (was the Toyota Tacoma the first one?). They could have used plant capacity in Thailand to source those products - the tariff was one of the reasons they didn't, and instead built plants in the US.


275 posted on 03/21/2005 2:22:38 PM PST by oceanview
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To: Toddsterpatriot

Agree. The 1980's are good times to remember. The US doom and gloomers were then prophesizing Japan's dominance and the US economic collapse. Hmm, what happened to that?

If you leave the market alone the US adapts. Adaptation not regulation has been the key to US sucess.


276 posted on 03/21/2005 2:46:28 PM PST by dervish
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To: 1rudeboy
Those are products being built in the USA for consumption in the USA.

And the problem is?

They don't make up for jobs producing products sold to a worldwide market. No leverage. Also, its my understanding most of these automobile factories are final assembly only. The individual components are manufactured overseas.

277 posted on 03/21/2005 2:46:36 PM PST by TexasKamaAina
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To: oceanview

So if the plants are here, then the tariff is no longer necessary . . . unless you speak for the UAW.


278 posted on 03/21/2005 2:58:07 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: chimera

Why is an EU publication describing the brain drain to the US a "speculative" article and your experience of one definitive?

"We've got more and more foreign nationals filling out the ranks in advanced degree programs, and fewer American students. There is a reason for that. Students aren't stupid."

So just the foreign students who do not return to their home countries are "stupid?" Read the articles. The foreign graduates stay here.



279 posted on 03/21/2005 3:00:25 PM PST by dervish
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To: TexasKamaAina

Sorry, but your understanding is incorrect. And autos, as opposed to other goods, have federally-mandated content labels. A part manufactured overseas, but installed here qualifies as "foreign."


280 posted on 03/21/2005 3:00:33 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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