Posted on 03/18/2005 7:06:36 PM PST by freeholland
where is dr kerkovian????
Perhaps, but Terri does have living family who want to take care of her. Further, the most rational explanation for Michael's behavior is that he knows da-n well that Terri isn't PVS, and he needs to conceal any evidence that she is.
If someone's organs are no longer capable of processing nutrients that arrive in the blood stream, feeding that person will accomplish nothing useful and may add to their discomfort. Whether such people are fed or not, they'll die of something else before they die of starvation or dehydration. Terri's body, however, is perfectly capable of processing food and water. She may even be capable of swallowing some were oral food and hydration not illegally forbidden.
No it's not, actually. The rights are supposed to be retained by Terri. It just so happens that the man who she once married but who subsequently pledged himself to another woman, "remembered" seven years after Terri's collapse, that she "wouldn't want to live this way". When asked whether such evidence wasn't a little thin, Michael found a sibling and an in-law who also magically "remembered" such statements by Terri. Judge Greer found such testimony to be "clear and compelling evidence" of Terri's wishes.
The problem with most of us isn't that we don't respect Terri's wishes, but rather that we believe Michael and his relatives are simply lying about them. Further, Michael's other behavior suggests that he is sandbagging Terri's condition, and further that the only way he could be "carrying out Terri's wishes" would be if she hated her parents and siblings when all evidence would indicate the contrary.
What Michael's opinion is regarding Terri's medical condition is irrelevant.
Every neurologist who has examined her over the past 15 years has drawn the same conclusion that she is in a permanent vegetative state, and that is all that matters.
It may seem unfair to you, but Terri's family does not have the legal right to render any decisions on her behalf.
And how many is that, and how long did they examine her? My understanding is that a two doctors hand-picked by Felos and a Hemlock Society member hand-picked by Greer examined her for less than an hour apiece and declared her PVS, but there are many other doctors who disagree with such diagnosis.
Further, if Michael is so certain she's PVS, further testing could help allay the fears of many that he's sandbagging. Of course, if he's instead certain that she's not PVS, his refusal to allow any evidence to be produced to the contrary is understandable.
Suppose I have a painting which I claim to be a genuine Rembrandt. Three experts declare it genuine, while two proclaim it an obvious fake. At least one of the experts who declare it genuine has never declared a painting fake, even though he's declared many paintings to be genuine which were later proven fake. Should the painting be believed with certainty to be genuine, since 3 of 5 "experts" believe it so?
Suppose further that over a dozen experts who look at a Polaroid of the painting say it's such an obvious fake that it can't even withstand a crude examination by snapshot. Should their word be discounted because they didn't see the real painting?
See - just as I said - an incremental precedent and you are part of the death cult.
Something I have learned from all of this -
NEVER TRUST THOSE WILLING TO KILL.
Why? Because they have already proven they have no boundaries in how they treat people. Just make sure you yourself are not one of the people they turn their eyes to.
That is tortured logic.
http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/7122138.htm
Many experts say the videos, made public after a court hearing last year, distort the reality of Terri Schiavo's condition.
They say most lay people, including her parents, have trouble reconciling the image of her tracking a balloon with her eyes or smiling at her mother's kiss with what doctors and judges say are the facts: She is unaware. She is not responding. She is unconscious. But, like most patients in a persistent vegetative state, she has wake and sleep cycles characterized by involuntary movements that seem to mimic emotions.
"What's gotten the Legislature to act is the coverage of her blinking and moving. They think maybe she's disabled or retarded," said Bill Allen, co-director of the Florida Bioethics Network. "I think people would take a different view if every time they saw her blinking, an expert neurologist would explain a picture of her brain scan. It would show her brain is mush."
Ron Cranford, one of five neurologists who examined Terri Schiavo and her brain scans for an October 2002 court hearing, said her cerebral cortex, the part of the brain that controls thought and awareness, is severely atrophied and has all but disintegrated. He said that process began when she collapsed from a potassium imbalance in 1990, enduring five critical minutes without oxygen, and has progressed over the years.
"There is hardly any cerebral cortex left," Cranford said. "It looks like a black hole."
He and a number of medical experts also take great umbrage at news media outlets that continue to describe Terri Schiavo as comatose. Patients in comas may wake up again, but those in persistent vegetative states don't - especially after 13 years.
Coupled with the misleading video images, they say, inaccuracy is further confusing the public.
Kelly McBride, a member of the ethics faculty at the Poynter Institute, a journalism-education center in St. Petersburg, Fla., agreed.
"Those videos can be taken out of context," she said. "By using them as B-roll, which is the film under the voice-over, or by simply presenting them without context, journalists are inaccurately using and explaining them, and that is swaying public opinion."
The videos were recorded to help Pinellas Circuit Judge George W. Greer decide whether Schiavo could improve with treatment, as her parents insist, or has no hope of recovery, as her husband and her doctors argue.
Greer held a hearing on those questions last October. After hearing from five doctors and watching hours of unedited videotaped examinations of Terri Schiavo, he agreed with three doctors who said she was in a persistent vegetative state and could not recover. Two of three, including Cranford, were selected by Michael Schiavo and one by the court. The two doctors selected by the Schindlers disagreed, basing their opinions primarily on Schiavo's response to brief stimuli, mostly involving contact with her mother.
The 2nd District Court of Appeal later agreed with Greer after a panel of three judges watched the tapes in their entirety.
Lawmakers did not do the same, nor review any medical testimony, before passing the bill giving the governor the power to restore Schiavo's artificial feedings. That, in part, is what outrages many critics of the unprecedented action.
UF's Allen said that is as preposterous as it would be to allow the Colorado Legislature to decide Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant's guilt on rape charges based on what they've seen on TV.
Because of this, determining that someone is PVS requires considerably greater proof than determining that they are not.
If Michael wanted an honest evaluation, the way to do it would be to arrange a test so that even allowing the Schindlers to actually conduct most of the testing (aside from the generation of some random numbers, which Schiavo could do either personally or with dice) it would be exceptionally improbable for the results to show non-PVS unless Terri was somewhat cognitive.
Sample protocol: Parents explain to Terri that she will take a polygraph as she is shown a series of pictures and audio clips (via her good eye) at 30-second intervals; she is to become tense when shown photos and audio of Michael, and she is to relax when shown photos and audio of her parents. The actual sequencing of the photos and audio would be selected by Michael et al. (either using dice, or whatever means they choose, subject to the constraint that no more than 3 of one type may be shown consecutively). One of the Schindlers would ovserve that the polygraph was done fairly (nobody prodding Terri at the wrong time, etc.) while another would be responsible for examining the polygraph trace (which would have 30-second intervals marked off) and trying to "read" which pictures were Michael and which were parents.
If Terri isn't congnitive, there would be no way for the parent reading the polygraph to score much over 50/50. Giving the test over a period of days, however, it should be possible to determine if Terri is at least occasionally concious because, if she is (and she's not drugged) she should be able on at least some days to score far above what chance would allow.
Arioch7 out.
As I mentioned, I would be willing to debate the point if she was REALLY brain dead.
I really wish the Matrix would present the facts in this case in a balanced manner. Yeah, like the MSM would do that. LOL
Arioch7 out.
But somehow the guy who wants her killed expects us to accept her condition based on his word and that of some "doctors" who declare everyone PVS whether they actually are or not.
Oftentimes, when someone is trying to hide something, one can get a pretty good idea of what they're trying to hide by how they go about hiding it. Michael's attempts to hide Terri give me a much clearer read on her condition than even the released videotapes. Michael knows Terri isn't PVS. Felos and Greer almost certainly do too. I suspect an honest examination of Terri will make abundantly clear that those people cannot reasonably believe her to be PVS.
But of course, since Greer says she's PVS, she must be. Greer is god, after all, at least in his world.
I think that certain folks in a vegatative state should be studied by neurologists so we can use the amazing breakthroughs in medical research to try to help vegetative types.
From your post, I know you don't consider Terri as a brain dead person and neither do I. My above statements were about what I think the medical establishment's mind view is. Why help brain damaged folks when you can use thier organs?
That is what I see as the future. Perhaps I am wrong but the obfuscation from the MSM about Terri would lead me to thik that a new wave of "Eugenics" is coming.
Eugenics was all the rage in the early 20'th century and reached its zenith and decline after the fall of Nazi Germany (In Western Countries anyway.). NIce to see the Left has brought it back, and they call US Fascists.
You pointed out the disinformation in this case about Terri. Aren't they all good little propoganda fascists? I know that when two opposing sides debate and one side resorts to calling the other fascist, it is usually laughed off as to the other sides intellectual weakness. Well, what if they actually behave like Fascists and act like it?
I have no stomach for tin-pot dictators. This argument about Terri has been distorted by a biased media which is an arm of the DNC. THAT is propoganda. It has been decided by Judges who have said the Constitution gives them the power to do this. Even if people agree with the decision, there is NOTHING in the constitution that rules on this so the Judges in question are acting as de facto dictators.
Do not be forlorn at this tragedy. Fight harder. That is my view and I know a lot of Conservatives are depressed by these things. Just remember that 15 years ago, Conservatism was dead. Maybe we will lose this but fight on damn it! Do not roll over and do not "accept" things as the way they are.
Even if we lose on this issue, fight harder! Please. Because I will.
Arioch7 out!
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