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To: winstonchurchill
...the question of withdrawing extraordinary, non-volitional "life-saving" impositions from a person suffering from irreversible and complete debilitation.

Interesting terminology. Why is "life-saving" in quotes when Terri is not terminally ill? Also the words, "non-volitional", "impositions" and "complete debilitation", aside from the disputability of the alleged facts, seem to be novel criteria. The word "irreversible" has in the past when in the context of impending death referred to a terminal illness, not merely a debilitating condition. One may have a debilitating condition and not be terminally ill. It's amazing to see how fast the criteria for determining when to withhold extraordinary treatment to people who are dying is degraded and corrupted into withholding nutrition and hydration from someone who is not.

Cordially,

664 posted on 03/17/2005 10:16:30 AM PST by Diamond
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To: Diamond
Why is "life-saving" in quotes when Terri is not terminally ill? Also the words, "non-volitional", "impositions" and "complete debilitation", aside from the disputability of the alleged facts, seem to be novel criteria. The word "irreversible" has in the past when in the context of impending death referred to a terminal illness, not merely a debilitating condition. One may have a debilitating condition and not be terminally ill. It's amazing to see how fast the criteria for determining when to withhold extraordinary treatment to people who are dying is degraded and corrupted into withholding nutrition and hydration from someone who is not.

The argument to which I was responding was that a priori Scriptural injunction compelled overcoming private decision-making of the husband otherwise authorized by law with a new state power. Since what is proposed is novel state-interference with private decision-making, I did not want to overstate (i.e. state more broadly) the principle which the advocates of the new grant of state power were arguing. Let's take the words, one by one.

"Extraordinary" means people don't come with permanent feeding tubes attached, so it must be implanted.

"Non-volitional" means the subject within whom the permanent feeding tube is to be implanted cannot consent to it.

"'Life-saving'" means merely that the moving party contends that without the non-volitional implantation, the person will die. The records of medicine are filled with examples where machines were thought to be necessary and proved not to be. Some years ago, it was argued that if a ventilator was removed from a comatose woman (whose name escapes me right now), she would die. Well, eventually, it was removed and she lived on her own for months or years. The quotation marks merely reflect that the moving party contends that it is necessary to preserve life.

"Irreversible" is important because the question would be much easier if there were any reasonable expectation that the present debilitation would be reversed and normality restored. This deals with duration. "Complete debilitation" is important because the degree of debilitation is important to the analysis. This deals with degree.

Since the proponents of new state power propose a truly novel new power, it is important to frame the question with precision.

669 posted on 03/17/2005 11:17:08 AM PST by winstonchurchill
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