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To: LogicWings
Thank you for your reply, LogicWings!

If you accept physical evidence of those soundwaves, however long ago they may have been created, then you accept the physical evidence of their existence. All experience is of past events, it is simply a matter of how long ago they took place, a thousandth of a second or a few billion years ago. "Sound" by definition is an experience.

Indeed, "words mean things" as you quoted Rush. In this case, you are evidently reading the word "sound" to mean something other than what I read in the word "sound". Here's what I read:

Wikipedia: Sound

Sound is a series of mechanical compressions and rarefactions or longitudinal waves that successively propagate through materials (medium) that are at least a little compressible (solid, liquid or gas but not vacuum). In sound waves parts of matter (molecules or groups of molecules) move in a direction of the spreading of the disturbance (as opposite to transversal waves). The cause of sound waves is called the source of waves, e.g. a violin string vibrating upon being bowed or plucked.

A sound wave is usually represented graphically by a wavy, horizontal line; the upper part of the wave (the crest) indicates a compression and the lower part (the trough) indicates a rarefaction.

I suspect you're reading it as the perception. From the same article, further down:

The frequency range of sound audible to humans is approximately between 20 and 20,000 Hz. This range varies by individual and generally shrinks with age. It is also an uneven curve - sounds near 3,500 Hz are often perceived as louder than a sound with the same amplitude at a much lower or higher frequency. Above and below this range are ultrasound and infrasound, respectively. The amplitude range of sound for humans has a lower limit of 0 dBSPL, called the threshold of hearing. While there is technically no upper limit, sounds begin to do damage to ears at 85 dBSPL and sounds above approximately 130 dBSPL (called the threshold of pain) cause pain. Again, this range varies by individual and changes with age.

The perception of sound is the sense of hearing. In humans and many animals this is accomplished by the ears, but loud sounds and low frequency sounds can be perceived by other parts of the body through the sense of touch. Sounds are used in several ways, most notably for communication through speech or, for example, music. Sound perception can also be used for acquiring information about the surrounding environment in properties such as spatial characteristics and presence of other animals or objects. For example, bats use one sort of echolocation, ships and submarines use sonar, and humans can determine spatial information by the way in which they perceive sounds.

The study of sound is called acoustics and is performed by acousticians. A notable subset is psychoacoustics, which combines acoustics and psychology to study how people react to sounds.

Concerning the rest of your post, you may find a thread currently in progress interesting: Freeper Investigation: What kinds of "Knowledge" exist, and how "certain" are the various types?

It is you who are presuming to have knowledge that you simply cannot have, and judging me because I don't see how you can arrive at such a conclusion.

I sincerely do not, nor do I wish to, judge you personally at all. I apologize for making you feel that way. My judgments are to matters, the concepts, worldviews, etc. - not to people who hold them.

For instance, the statement above "that you simply cannot have" is wrongful. That is not a reflection on you but on the statement itself as follows:

A person may not accept what I claim as how I know what I know, but a statement that I cannot have the knowledge I claim is not supportable because the claimant cannot enter my mind to obtain evidence for that conclusion.

If you'd like to finish this discussion here, that's fine with me - but if you'd rather, we can pick it up on the other thread where many others may be interested in your views also.

1,112 posted on 04/09/2005 11:41:18 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl (Please donate monthly to Free Republic!)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Sound is a series of mechanical compressions and rarefactions or longitudinal waves that successively propagate through materials (medium) that are at least a little compressible (solid, liquid or gas but not vacuum). In sound waves parts of matter (molecules or groups of molecules) move in a direction of the spreading of the disturbance (as opposite to transversal waves). The cause of sound waves is called the source of waves, e.g. a violin string vibrating upon being bowed or plucked.

One the one hand you assert that space/time reality is entirely subjective and on the other hand you want to have an "objective" definition of the word, "sound." So which is it?

My unabridged Webster's first entry for sound is:

The sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibration transmitted through the air or other medium.

This is the meaning of the Zen Koan: If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one to hear it, is there sound?

Vibration happens, sound IS a perception. To which I would say:

The frequency range of sound audible to humans is approximately between 20 and 20,000 Hz.

is the working definition of sound. The frequency range of vibration between 20 and 20,000 Hz is perceived as sound for human beings. Saying it is "sound" Begs the Question that it is perceived vibration.

What you illustrate here is why there is so much confusion in the world on these issues. The perception of vibration as sound existed long, long before any of these technical definitions.

1,113 posted on 04/09/2005 1:24:47 PM PDT by LogicWings
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