Book: Nazis tested crude nuclear device

Bakersfield Californian ^ | 3/14/05 | Tony Czuczka - AP

[skinkinthegrass]

While doing a google search on tickling the tiger came across this site..???:

I agree w/ the ???:, typifies the mindset of the 'wacko leftists', throughout time..can't see the forrest, because of the damn trees.

[Al Gator]

Are there any records on that? I'd like to investigate the actual numbers of ME's that flew, were shot down and were captured.

My info comes from the aviation museum and may not be complete.

[nuke rocketeer]

I got this from various documentaires on the History channel and from a few WW2 books. Adolf Galland was shot down while trying to land by a mustang and wounded in early 1945. He was out for the rest of the war. Another German ace was shot down trying to take off and was killed. Another suffered serious burns that scarred his face severely. I can't remember his name. I know the Time-Life WW2 books had some stuff on this.

[Al Gator]

Thanks, I'll look that up. That certainly must have been an elite corp of pilots.

Putting aside the peripherals of the war itself, you just can't help wondering what those guys were thinking. The worlds first jet airplane, and they were flying it.

Except for take off and landing, once they were in the sky, they were untouchable.

[nuke rocketeer]

Yeah, it was formed by Galland after he was demoted by Goering. He took a group of the best surviving aces, got priority for 20 or so 262's, and made quite a splash in the last three months of the war, doing what he was demoted by Goering and Hitler for demanding that the Luftwaffe do on a large scale. Hitler wanted bombers and though defensive use of the ME-262 was stupid. Galland argued passionately for a large production and use of jet fighters and was removed from his high position in the Luftwaffe. He ended the war in the same position he started it in, a squadron commander.

[verity]

"I agree. This is just another, the Germans are Uber-smart, article."

You are forgetting that their scientists and the V2 Rocket technology were quintessential elements for the US and USSR missile programs.

[Al Gator]

He is also forgetting that neither ours, or the Soviet's space programs would have blossomed as they did.

Some folks just can't adjust to the fact that good can come from evil.

Case in point.

In the navy, we build survival equipment for flyers who go in the drink in super cold water. After WWII the navy had to rethink much of what it "knew" about the situation. The reason they were able to come up new tech on the subject was because of the "experiments" that the Japanese conducted on American and Chinese POWs.

We now know EXACTLY how long a man will live in sub freezing sea water.

Many men died giving us that info.

[verity]

Good insight.

[elbucko]

You are forgetting that their scientists and the V2 Rocket technology were quintessential elements for the US and USSR missile programs.

And you are forgetting - no you never knew - that Warner Von Braun and his colleagues based their programs on the experiments made by the American rocket scientist, Dr. Robert H. Goddard in the early 1900's. In 1914, Goddard was awarded the patent for the liquid fuel rocket and the multi-stage rocket. The German Rocket Society of 1927 was founded upon Goddard's writings on his rocket experiments. They considered Goddard their "Founding Father".

BTW, Willie Messerschmitt also used American, "NACA", airfoil sections in the ME-109 and 262. The immortal R.J. Mitchell, the designer of the Supermarine "Spitfire", also availed himself of US aerodynamic research from Langley in the design of the excellent wing of that airplane.

In the final analysis, all the "Vunder Veapons" that the Krauts invented were actually copies of someone else's work, usually American. On May 7, 1945, all air, land and sea forces, as well as all the weapons of the "Third Reich", were either damaged, destroyed, or captured by the Allied Forces. After all is said and done, Nazi Germany was nothing but a looser.

[verity]

You have a pissy attitude!

[colorado tanker]

I saw a documentary on the History Channel that said the same thing - the Nazis had built a dirty bomb. But there was no indication it had been tested. From this write up it sounds pretty iffy, all based on some circumstantial evidence.

[elbucko]

You have a pissy attitude!

....;^)

[verity]

"And you are forgetting - no you never knew -"

A totally gratuitous phrase indicating an attitude and, for me, diminishing the impact of the interesting facts you provided.

[elbucko]

"And you are forgetting - no you never knew -"

Well, did you ever know then? If you had, you would have known that the German rocket program, including the rocket powered "Komet", was using technology that was patented in America in 1914 and you would not have posted that Americas rocket programs were based on German Rocketry programs. There is often an assumption, particularly among Americans of German descent, that Germany "invented everything" and lost WWII only because Hitler was an idiot. Not true. The only truly great German weapon of WWII was the 88mm gun. As an anti-aircraft weapon, "88's" were responsible for more downed bombers than German fighters.

The word "verity" is another word for truth. Most of the time truth is fact. What you posted as fact was historically inaccurate. You have just gotten more accurate.

[verity]

Does not alter the fact that you are an egotistical *****.

[elbucko]

Does not alter the fact that you are an egotistical *****.

I beg your pardon. It was you and your "ego" that fired the first shot with..."you're forgetting"....and then proceeded to correct me with your bogus information. I can not help it if you expose yourself to the return fire of fact. Maybe you should have just kept silent.

[Robert357]

I just saw this story on the main netscape webpage and did a search prior to posting and found it to be "old" news.

In nuclear engineering graduate school I had the opportunity to have a series of lectures by Karl Wirtz who was a visiting professor from the West German equivalent to the Atomic Energy Commission. Dr. Wirtz had been part of the German atomic bomb program. After one of his lectures he discussed with us some of his WW-II experiences.

He told us that the principal scientists were into passive resistance and worked at glacial speeds. Just fast enough to keep from being disciplined by the military who were watching them, but as slow as possible. Some were going slow for moral reasons, some were going slow so they didn't finish their part early and end up in the military on the eastern front.

From what he told us, and I don't think he had any reason not to tell the truth, they were a long way from having an operable atomic bomb, let a long a reliable system, capable of delivery by something like an airplane or V-2.

My feeling is that this is either all much ado about nothing or it is about a dirty bomb as many before have discussed.

If it was a dirty bomb, the Germans were smart enough to know which isotopes to use to get maximum effect. They would probably use short-live energetic isotopes, like sodium and not extremely long lived isotopes. I doubt they would waste expensive U-235 on a dirty bomb.

Intelligent selection of isotopes by the Germans, would call into question any measured values in soil some 60 years later. While with neutron activation of various chemicals to create isotopes you usually get a mix of isotopes some with longer half-lives, I still would be surprised to have much long half-life isotopes still present.

What, if anything, would be present in soil samples would give a strong clue as to if it were a failed attempt at atomic detonation, with below critical mass, or if it were residue from a "dirty bomb" that was designed to be a dirty bomb.

Remember that when the first nuclear bomb (uncontrolled nuclear reaction) was tested in New Mexico, some of the scientists were unsure if the chain reaction would ever stop or if the world would be destroyed. Others felt it would stop. With some debate like that, one could understand why someone might want to "see" what would happen with a sub critical mass, prior to trying out a "real bomb."

Therefore, while their could have been a "test," I doubt that it was a serious test of an atomic bomb that anyone thought would ready for deployment if it passed the tests.

[A CA Guy]

This was a very well documented point in history.