Newt Targets Tenure: Proposals to Fire All "Anti-American" Professors (note source)

Revolutionary Worker Online ^ | March 13, 2005

[StACase]

Maybe we should have a congressional un-American activities committee. OK, I just wanted to be first.

Well really! What's Gingrich's thinking here?

Fire him because he's lied on his resume and has several counts of plagiarism but academic freedom means he gets to say outrageous stuff.

[yoe]

"Well really! What's Gingrich's thinking here?"

IMHO, What Newt is really touting, is for colleges and Universities to clean up their act with these anti-Americans and other plagiarists amongst them - Or Else! Tenured or otherwise, teachers who lie and cheat should be given their walking papers and I suspect some of those employees are getting right down nervous as well as the Boards who support same.

[aspiring.hillbilly]

Not TRUE! His students are there for an education, not to be filled with outrageous loonie leftist propaganda disguised as the truth. He is an incompetent pure and simple and should be fired for that very gross incompetitance.

[LS]

As a tenured professor, I can see both sides of this. First, let me point out I'm at a PRIVATE school, so the "tax-funded" comments probably don't apply much, although as we all know, there are very few truly "private" schools that don't slurp at the government trough, all the time.

Second, I can say that at the few schools I've taught at (two universities, been a grad student or TA at two others), I have never seen a faculty or administration officially try to silence a tenured prof. There are lots of "water cooler" comments, and lots of harassment ("Diversity" meetings etc) but no official attempts to control what is said in the classroom or on a podium outside the classroom. This goes for both faculy of the left and right.

It is true that if you are MARGINAL and CONSERVATIVE, you are fair game. If you don't publish much or have average teaching, you open the door for them to deny you tenure or promotion, probably much faster than liberal profs. However, it usually never gets to that because most of the conservatives are weeded out in the search committee process. Very few conservatives get through these committees.

All that said, if you allow administrations, for whatever reason, to go after profs for what they say in or out of the classroom (as opposed to clear morals violations or lawbreaking behavior) then trust me on this: the VERY FEW conservatives on college campuses will be eradicated in a heartbeat. It is ONLY tenure (and excellent production) that ensures that they keep their jobs. Yeah, there would be some Ward Churchill-type scalps taken, but on a year-to-year basis, conservatives would get culled out.

[LS]

Exactly right. WC has violated school and state laws by LYING on his job app and resume, and that's enough to can him.

[hosepipe]

Copied from that site..
About the, "Revolutionary Communist Party, USA"...

IF these guys are against what Newt said... Its got to be good and beneficial for the United States..

That site is like political porn...

[AmericanChef]

I'd be all for it, 'cept I'm not in charge.

It's just stupid to consider laws like these. For one thing, having the gubmint decide who gets fired from what's really an indirect institution is just ludicrous. There's plenty else that can be done. In the case of Fugly Ward, the public spoke out, was heard, and the U is taking all kinds of hits on it.

The public has to keep it up. Just like we have to keep on top of our mis-representatives in DC to stop making stupid decisions about everything from birth to death.

[SAJ]

Nah, CNN is profitable.

MSNBC is the Amtrak of news.

:^)

[missthethunder]

bump

[TomGuy]

Gingrich ... is now preparing for his presidential run in 2008.

[Snicker] Why isn't Newt still in Congress? Oh, yeh, ethics violation. That'll go over well in the primaries.

[hosepipe]

[ Yeah, there would be some Ward Churchill-type scalps taken, but on a year-to-year basis, conservatives would get culled out. ]

A short term approach or analysis... (your job)...

More important is the press would get all pissy faced over this.. and alert people to the issue.. especially parents, so-called conservative parents. Long term.. this liberal Nazism would get exposed somewhat.. There is ONLY David Horowitz up in arms about this, as far as I know.. Americas colleges are leftist re-education camps pure and simple.. The illusion that the campus is a marketplace of ideas is propaganda.. Whats being done, almost nothing.. Any exposure would be good..

There are very few "conservative"" profs. anyway.. What is a conservative ?.. The terms liberal and conservative are loose cannons anyway.. they can mean about anything.. If the proper light was put on the/this subject your job might be threatened short term, maybe even long term but at least the boil would be "pricked".. Been festering a long time..

Academia is as bad or worse than the MSM not as democrat dupes but as willing members of the third way or the fifth column.. I disagree with you.. Lancing this "boil" probably won't happen YET.. but "pricking it" could happen.. Newt is a prof. himself.. and knows the problems intimately.

Might cost you your job though.. What say ye.?.

[Boundless]

> Millions of people are being told to think,
> "Why should my tax dollars go to teaching
> ideas that I don't agree with!"

And phasing out government schools, as well as ending all
federal funding for private schools (except for specific
results-oriented R&D), makes this entire debate just go
away.

... along with zillions of other "ought wallowing" issues.

By the way, is there any evidence that events like the
Churchie scandal are opening parents eyes to the agendas
of these so-called institutes of higher education?

[Noachian]

Why are my tax dollars being used to keep a tenured professor in his job when he slanders my country and my values?

The Left will answer this question citing his freedom of speech, and the fact that lots of liberal tax payers don't mind slander at all.

As far as his freedom of speech goes, he has that right. But, not with my tax dollars.

As far as liberals who don't mind the slander and agree with him, that's too one sided. If Churchill is to stay at his tenured job then UC should spend some of my tax dollars hiring Conservative professors to balance out the liberal's slander.

I mean that's what the Left is all about isn't it - diversity and multiculturalism?

[johnb838]

...that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law... so help me God. From the Citizenship Oath

What these (braying) jackasses all forget is that when you cross the line from dissent into blatant anti-americanism you are violating your oath of citizenship and can not only be censured, I'm pretty sure you can be jailed as well.

[johnb838]

Hah, hah, hah, the left thinks we've gone so right wing... we have not yet BEGUN to go right wing. Especially if we get attacked again.

[LS]

First, this isn't the solution. Ending tenure would not, in any way, "reform" the universities to be more honest, reliable, etc., because the faculty still control the hiring. Until or unless somehow trustees or parents actually hire faculty (fat chance) nothing would change. All that would happen---regardless of what happens to "my job" (and by the way, it was liberals who hired me, promoted me, and gave me tenure, based on my work)---would be that the same liberal committees that dominate tenure and promotion would evaluate and pass judgment on annual contracts or 3-, 4-, or 5-year contracts.

Second, you are missing the central fact the faculty controls the terms of hiring and promotion (and trust me, now matter how legislatures or trustees word any "enforcement" legislation, the faculty STILL would be the ones to interpret it). Take, for example, "Western Civ." courses. We (and many, many other schools) had a WC requirement---but it is impossible to regulate WHAT individual faculty say about western civ. So many of them taught it, and taught it cricially (i.e., WC destroyed the world). Now, unless or until you have parents and administrators in every class taking notes, you aren't going to control that except through the hiring process. (See #1 above).

3) It is the nature of most conservatives NOT to go into academics. Newt wasn't tenured (I don't think) and was not, to my knowledge, a full time faculty member. The last such person to serve in Congress was, I think, Phil Crane of Illinois or Dick Armey, both of whom were college profs. In short, merely doing away with tenure in the short run would hurt what few conservatives are in universities (and there are some) while at the same time do absolutely nothing about the fundamental problem, which is that the universities are NOT subject to market forces. That is where any "reform" of higher education must start---by making students pay for their education without "aid" or scholarships. This is the conclusion of Richard Vedder's study, "Going Broke by Degree."

[hosepipe]

[ First, this isn't the solution. Ending tenure would not, in any way, "reform" the universities to be more honest, reliable, etc., because the faculty still control the hiring. ]

Wrong...
Tenure flys in the face of capitalism, thats why there IS tenure.. Its like a Super Union.. Enabling the same dialectic just like unions do.. Commies love unions for just that reason.. Its feeds their Utopian concepts.. Did I say SUPER UNION.. AH! yes I did..

The same mangement or management sorry, will probably perform the same way, true. But light THIS situation is muted by many other world affairs.. Tenure is at the base of America problems.. especially collegiate problems.. If your pro-union then you will be pro-tenure.. for the same reasons.. If you are anti-union, like me, you MUST be anti-tenure.. Lets call a spade a spade..

Like you almost CAN'T fire a federal worker.. because of the Federal Workers Party Union.. for damned near anything.. same thing.. The American Teachers Union(s) are a POX on the American education system.. Tenure.. same thing..

The basic idea of tenure rewards incompetence not excellence.. as fleeting as excellence is.. A job for life rewards laziness, like socialism does.. Socialism is slavery by givernment... and Tenure is slavery too incompetence..

There was a time for Unions, now is not that time.. especially of Super Unions.. Reforming the University's will happen gradually AFTER tenure is trashed. BUT not until then.. Since America slowly eroding to socialism the chances of that happening is not great..

[ClaireSolt]

I agree with you. Conservatives need to study educational governance and find ways to make public schools serve public interests. As a historian, Newt Guerinrich is well qualified to evaluate the Ward Churchill record, but that does not mean O'Reilly will allow time for it. I am a former academic and historian, and I watched the man for an hour on c-span. A professor should be able to plan a very good one hour presentation, but he did not. What I saw was appalling. He was incoherent, disjointed, and abusive, and hostile. He doesn't repect any one's rights. I am amazed that he is still in the classroom. He should have been suspended and he should be fired. He's embarassed himself and his college, and when he had a chance to redeem himself on national tv he blew it imho.