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Noonan: Defense Begins at Home ("Take it away, FreeRepublic")
Opinion Journal ^ | March 10, 2005 | Paggy Noonan

Posted on 03/10/2005 3:36:52 AM PST by RobFromGa

Freedom may be on the march, but America is still vulnerable to attack.

Thursday, March 10, 2005 12:01 a.m.

There are two predominant journalistic memes since the Arab spring began. The first, from the left: What if Bush was right? This was most famously and appropriately grappled with on Comedy Central, when Democratic foreign-policy thinker Nancy Soderberg consoled Jon Stewart with the hopefully facetious, but either way revealing, advice to hang on, things can still turn bad with North Korea or Iran. The other, from the middle and the right: As I wrote in this space two years ago, the invasion of Iraq will likely give rise to a surge of democratic feeling that will inspire the entire Mideast. This is known as making it clear to one's fans and foes that you were on the right side of history.

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: noonan; soderberg
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To: RobFromGa
was a rather crazy speech, weirdly Wilsonian and at odds with conservatism's ancestral knowledge of the imperfectability of this world and the inability of politics to heal all that wounds us.

Well at least there are still a few actual conservatives out there. I may disagree with you on some other aspects of your article Ms. Noonan but you hit the nail on the head right there. It's no longer conservatism at work, it's nationalism

121 posted on 03/10/2005 1:00:20 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: churchillbuff

"I hope we never have to find out. My point in joining this discussion is that I'm curious as to why Bush -- and some of the freepers who join him in calling for the US to "spread freedom" or "spread democracy" -- mainly talk about lack of freedom in the Middle East. They don't talk about lack of freedom in China - - even though that's the country with the largest number of oppressed people on the planet; and it also happens to be a country that has some military leaders who've threatened to nuke us - - according to the Washington Times story I posted."

Your posts are always good! :-)

I'm hoping that this idea of freedom, that started with our own revolution, will have a domino effect the middle east extending to asia. We can only hope and pray that it does. I can't see us losing American lives to spread freedom to areas where the people do not wish to be free.

It's really too early to tell, unless the chinese wish to test our resolve.


122 posted on 03/10/2005 1:00:38 PM PST by nikos1121
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To: Peach

"Which part of a war on terror and jihadists don't you understand? "


Are you talking to me?


123 posted on 03/10/2005 1:01:52 PM PST by nikos1121
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To: nikos1121
Give me some examples of free and democratic societies that are now totalitarian and thriving.

I can't, and if they are not threatening our national security I don't give a shit.

124 posted on 03/10/2005 1:03:02 PM PST by iconoclast (Better to take refuge in the Lord than to put one's trust in princes. (Psalms 118:9).)
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To: Peach

What the mental midgets on this thread fail to realise that just because the battle is not joined, does not mean that liberty's cause is not being furthered. China would be a difficult country to invade and dominate. What we can do is continue to pry open that particular oyster with our technology and ideas, until such time as the Communist Party seems an embarassing anachronism. This process is underway - the regime doesn't stand a chance against the up and coming Chinese bloggers.

Regards, Ivan


125 posted on 03/10/2005 1:04:31 PM PST by MadIvan (One blog to bring them all...and in the Darkness bind them: http://www.theringwraith.com/)
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To: Arkie2

Peggy should learn from lawyers, while Bush's goals may be lofty you have to raise the bar high, it's the same reason a lawyer sues for $5 million but happily accepts $2.5 million. Keep digging Peg ...


126 posted on 03/10/2005 1:05:31 PM PST by John Lenin (Common sense is very uncommon nowadays)
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To: iconoclast

neither do i


127 posted on 03/10/2005 1:05:41 PM PST by nikos1121
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To: MadIvan

Exactly so, Ivan.

I don't know which part of the war on terror against jihadists don't understand.

This freeper doesn't even think Iraq is part of the war on terror and now we're supposed to believe he wants us to invade China. I can barely type for the laughing.


128 posted on 03/10/2005 1:06:24 PM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Peach

An old craftsman saying should suffice - the right tool for the right job. The right tool in Iraq was turning Saddam's regime to ashes. The right tool in Iran is tapping into the discontent of the country's youth to overturn the Islamist regime. The right tool in Zimbabwe is a single, well aimed laser guided bomb to take out Mugabe. And so on...there is no need, nor is it desireable to use the troops in every instance - in fact, that's the last resort. But the agenda of liberty can and should be advanced by the right policies for each situation.

Best Regards, Ivan


129 posted on 03/10/2005 1:09:39 PM PST by MadIvan (One blog to bring them all...and in the Darkness bind them: http://www.theringwraith.com/)
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To: MadIvan

Beautifully put. And if any freeper thinks that the president's talk of freedom hasn't resonated with the young people of China and other places, they are seriously misguided.

Of course, the freeper in question knows that. He just posts things continuously to try and make the administration look bad. It's been his MO as long as he's been here.

What I hadn't realized what the moderators willingness to let yet another thread be hijacked of a conversation that is completely inappropriate to this article and thread.


130 posted on 03/10/2005 1:11:23 PM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: MadIvan

"What the mental midgets on this thread fail to realise that just because the battle is not joined, does not mean that liberty's cause is not being furthered. China would be a difficult country to invade and dominate. What we can do is continue to pry open that particular oyster with our technology and ideas, until such time as the Communist Party seems an embarassing anachronism. This process is underway - the regime doesn't stand a chance against the up and coming Chinese bloggers.

Regards, Ivan"


I agree with this.


131 posted on 03/10/2005 1:12:23 PM PST by nikos1121
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To: All

I wonder if Peggy's read the discussion she inspired.

"Peggy if you're out there, how about giving us a "ping?"


132 posted on 03/10/2005 1:14:07 PM PST by nikos1121
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To: MadIvan
This is last time I'm going to waste this much time on you.

THe threat is not just from Osama, but from the states who harboured and helped him - e.g., Afghanistan.

Afghanistan isn't even a country, its a bunch of tribes. They go to the highest bidder. You probably think everything is hunky-dunky in Afghanistan.

Furthermore threats come from despotic states which use terrorist groups to further their aims - e.g., Iran and Syria's support for Hezbollah.

Interesting. Threats to whom?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

I probably am almost as moved by high sounding rhetoric as you, but a portion of our population was regarded as 0-3/5 human. So, where does that put these rag-head head choppers, 1/5 of less? Get real.

It's not remaking cultures in our image - it is giving the individual the opportunity to decide their own destiny

Sorta like Algeria?

Any Americans want to take me on. Get lost Brit.

133 posted on 03/10/2005 1:23:56 PM PST by iconoclast (Better to take refuge in the Lord than to put one's trust in princes. (Psalms 118:9).)
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To: RobFromGa

My bad. I do think the mods are sometimes too assertive with their knives, but I defer to your assessment on this one.


134 posted on 03/10/2005 1:26:14 PM PST by Lee'sGhost (Crom!)
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To: billbears; RobFromGa
Hang tough you two.

Conservatives will rise again! ;o)

135 posted on 03/10/2005 1:27:20 PM PST by iconoclast (Better to take refuge in the Lord than to put one's trust in princes. (Psalms 118:9).)
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To: MadIvan; Peach
Thanks to both of you for defending President Bush's Freedom policy on this thread. I wish I had the time to respond to these assertions as well in detail but I have too much going on.

China is being encouraged to open up, and President Bush has made numerous statements to that effect. Patience, grasshoppers...

136 posted on 03/10/2005 1:36:25 PM PST by RobFromGa (Bush Needs to Stay Aggressive in Term 2)
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To: iconoclast
This is last time I'm going to waste this much time on you.

On the contrary, you're wasting my time with your mindless pablum.

Afghanistan isn't even a country, its a bunch of tribes. They go to the highest bidder. You probably think everything is hunky-dunky in Afghanistan.

Now you're lying - while Afghanistan has a good number of tribes and warlords, the Taliban constituted the overall authority in the country. It was the central government. Furthermore, you conveniently left out how Iran and Syria, far more centralised states, also sponsor terrorism. I realise it's inconvenient for you to realise such things, but selective blindness is not a sufficient riposte.

And no, I do not believe everything is wonderful in Afghanistan. But if you think they were better off under the Taliban, you need your head examined.

Interesting. Threats to whom?

Perhaps you ought to read this, regarding Hezbollah -

Hezbollah Vows Anew to Target Americans

And again, they have sponsors in Syria and Iran. Any questions?

I probably am almost as moved by high sounding rhetoric as you, but a portion of our population was regarded as 0-3/5 human. So, where does that put these rag-head head choppers, 1/5 of less? Get real.

The men who wrote those words were of differing opinions on slavery - but what is certainly true is that the tension between the ideas they expressed in the Declaration and the institution of slavery was not sustainable and eventually it was corrected. Similarly, the tension between the fundamental truths as expressed in the Declaration and the despotisms of the world needs to be corrected - lest the energy that the tension creates explodes in directions we dislike, e.g. Islamic terrorism.

Sorta like Algeria?

Sophistry. Algeria is a failed state...but that was partially how the French left it.

Any Americans want to take me on. Get lost Brit.

The "limey go home" tactic is indicative of nothing but an exhausted mind. You're frankly a loser in more ways than one.

Ivan

137 posted on 03/10/2005 1:37:07 PM PST by MadIvan (One blog to bring them all...and in the Darkness bind them: http://www.theringwraith.com/)
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To: iconoclast
Get lost Brit.

That is disgusting. You should wash your mouth out with soap.

138 posted on 03/10/2005 1:37:48 PM PST by RobFromGa (Bush Needs to Stay Aggressive in Term 2)
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To: nikos1121
I wonder if Peggy's read the discussion she inspired.

I'm sure she'll read it at some point.

139 posted on 03/10/2005 1:38:55 PM PST by RobFromGa (Bush Needs to Stay Aggressive in Term 2)
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To: iconoclast

Lovely language. Cut it out.


140 posted on 03/10/2005 1:40:30 PM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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