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Outrage as US soldiers kill hostage rescue hero
The Observer ^ | Sunday March 6, 2005 | Philip Willan Rome

Posted on 03/05/2005 6:21:41 PM PST by Lessismore

Bush promises Italian leader a full investigation

The Italian journalist kidnapped in Iraq arrived back in Rome yesterday as fury and confusion grew over the circumstances in which she was shot and one of her rescuers was killed by American soldiers. The shooting in Iraq on Friday evening, which occurred as Giuliana Sgrena was being driven to freedom after being released by her captors, was fuelling anti-war activists in Italy and putting pressure on Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi.

'The hardest moment was when I saw the person who had saved me die in my arms,' she said. Her poignant words and weak, haggard appearance as she had to be helped from the jet that brought her back from Baghdad are fuelling national rage.

Berlusconi, a staunch ally of the US who defied widespread public opposition to the Iraq war and sent 3,000 troops, took the rare step of summoning US ambassador Mel Sembler to his office.

He demanded that the US 'leave no stone unturned' in investigating the incident. President George Bush called Berlusconi to promise a full investigation.

Sgrena, 56, a journalist for the Communist newspaper Il Manifesto, was hit in the shoulder when US soldiers opened fire on the car she was travelling in as it approached a checkpoint less than a mile from Baghdad airport. The Italian secret service officer who had negotiated her release was killed as he shielded her from the gunfire. Two of his colleagues were also hurt.

Berlusconi prides himself on his close personal friendship with President George Bush, but he was grim-faced when he told reporters that someone would have to take responsibility 'for such a grave incident'.

The US Army claimed the Italians' vehicle had been seen as a threat because it was travelling at speed and failed to stop at the checkpoint despite warning shots being fired by the soldiers. A State Department official in Washington said the Italians had failed to inform the military of Sgrena's release.

Italian reconstruction of the incident is significantly different. Sgrena told colleagues the vehicle was not travelling fast and had already passed several checkpoints on its way to the airport. The Americans shone a flashlight at the car and then fired between 300 and 400 bullets at if from an armoured vehicle. Rather than calling immediately for assistance for the wounded Italians, the soldiers' first move was to confiscate their weapons and mobile phones and they were prevented from resuming contact with Rome for more than an hour.

Enzo Bianco, the opposition head of the parliamentary committee that oversees Italy's secret services, described the American account as unbelievable. 'They talk of a car travelling at high speed, and that is not possible because there was heavy rain in Baghdad and you can't travel at speed on that road,' Bianco said. 'They speak of an order to stop, but we're not sure that happened.'

Pier Scolari, Sgrena's partner who flew to Baghdad to collect her, put an even more sinister construction on the events, suggesting in a television interview that Sgrena was the victim of a deliberate ambush. 'Giuliana may have received information which led to the soldiers not wanting her to leave Iraq alive,' he claimed.

Sgrena was kidnapped on 4 February as she interviewed refugees from Falluja near a Baghdad mosque. Two weeks later her captors issued a video of her weeping and pleading for help, calling on all foreigners to leave Iraq. Italian journalists were subsequently withdrawn from the city after intelligence warnings of a heightened threat to their safety.

Italian newspapers reported yesterday that Sgrena had been in the hands of former Saddam loyalists and criminals, and that a ransom of between £4 million and £5 million had been paid for her release. The military intelligence officer who lost his life, Nicola Calipari, 51, was hailed as a national hero.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: allies; berlusconi; bush43; checkpoint; communists; hostages; iraq; italy; journalist; probe; sgrena; sheisacommunist
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To: All
My gast was flabbered, as Lee Rodgers says, that no one had mentioned Lt. Pantano through well over one hundred replies until mine above.

After the incident the command did the investigation. End of story except later a Marine NCO made the claim that Lt. Pantano deliberately shot the two men.

As I understand the men's vehicle was found to have explosives. During the search the two men started toward Lt. Pantano. He ordered them in Arabic to stop. They didn't. At least not of their own will.

Knowing that the ACLU pukes and other enemies within were set to swarm over the courts to get info, the story is that the Marines decided to make the charge based upon the NCO's claim. All others who were there dispute the NCO.

Lt. Pantano and his family have been threatened by enemies foreign and domestic. Other Marines active, retired, young, old watch over the family.

The MSM pukes should not reveal the names of the troops in the reporter shooting -- it could endanger their families' lives. All the more reason for the MSM to do it, of course.

Not a word from the President about Lt. Pantano.

What chance do these troops have when it's not an NCO making the charge it's a frenzy of foreign leaders, communists, radical Muslims, our Rats, our MSM, you name 'em.

181 posted on 03/05/2005 9:30:55 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (MSM Fraudcasters are skid marks on journalism's clean shorts.)
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To: HoustonCurmudgeon

When the US wants a carload dead we don't use a grunt and a ma Duece.

We use a Predator and a Hellfire.


182 posted on 03/05/2005 9:31:40 PM PST by ko_kyi
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To: Gunrunner2

Well, you're naive, so I guess that makes us even.

Same to you.


183 posted on 03/05/2005 9:32:28 PM PST by hleewilder
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'Giuliana may have received information which led to the soldiers not wanting her to leave Iraq alive,' he claimed.

A mad dash to the airport, didn't inform US that she had been released...Sounds to me like Giuliana didn't want to answer questions.

Normal protocol, I would think, for released hostages would be a medical once over & a thorough interrogation for clues...where she had been held, descriptions of the kidnappers, an effort to recover the ransom... This sounds like an extortion scam & if the Italian Secret Service is involved in this, could the agents involved be a rogue element? And what's with the dash to the airport? What about the screening of people leaving the country?

And we should not forget--The Italians have some heavy-duty splaining to do to the Iraqis.

184 posted on 03/05/2005 9:38:28 PM PST by elli1
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
Not a word from the President about Lt. Pantano.

It would be unwise and foolish for the president to say anything about Pantano at this stage. He doesn't need to risk having claims of undue command influence raised. It just isn't smart or necessary. If he sits tight he preserves all his options, including directing that there be no prosecution.

I would wait and see where the Article 32 report falls out before getting too excited. That's what the president is doing. Marine JAGs and commanders are generally first-rate in getting to the right decision.

185 posted on 03/05/2005 9:38:45 PM PST by JCEccles (If Jimmy Carter were a country, he'd be Canada.)
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To: Lessismore
There are several unfortunate twists occurring at near the same time here. The second episode which popped up this month...is the investigation over the disappearance of a suspected Muslim terrorist in Italy. It is highly suspected that he was secretly taken out by the CIA, and transported via Aviano AB (our one and only Air Force runway there in Italy). The investigators actually showed up at the Italian side of the base and demanded records...and wanted to establish what is moving in and out of the base. Another episode is the ongoing Italian union negotiations going on in Italy with the US government...which is planning a downsize effort, and the union is furious that such a thing would occur. Add to it the cable car episode from about seven years ago...where the US Naval aircraft clipped it and killed around 30 Italians...and things just aren't forgotten that much in Italy.

The issue here...will be if they were speeding (which my guess is they were), if they paid the ransom (which invites more hostage taking in the future), and if Italian communists are allowed to make this a one-issue type campaign to bring down the government and kick the Americans out of Italy (which probably won't happen). There are few real allies left in Europe...Italy was a friend on occasion...although we have tested the relationship on dozens of occasions. We will likely make it through this one as well. In two weeks...this reporter will be old news and the Italian media will have to move on.
186 posted on 03/05/2005 9:41:58 PM PST by pepsionice
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To: JCEccles
Thanks. I too am perplexed. How can a soldier be accused of murder for the reasonable killing of an expected enemy combatant in a combat zone? From what I have learned, the case seems to be pretty straight forward. The Iraqis continued toward Pantano after being warned, in Arabic, to halt. The Iraqis had been at a site that had been suspected of being used by insurgents.

IMO, in a combat zone, there should be no obligation even to offer warning signals. This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

So why would anyone (assuming there are no grudges) want to pursue an Article 32 case against Pantano? I have heard that there was an accuser. And why doesn't someone in higher authority step in to end this insanity (assuming there is nothing more to the case)? IMO, Sec Def Rumsfeld or even President Bush should end this asap.

187 posted on 03/05/2005 9:47:03 PM PST by Mad_Tom_Rackham (This just in from CBS: "There is no bias at CBS")
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To: bray
Until proven otherwise, our boys acted in the way they were trained and did exactly what they should have done. Sad that this guy died, but they should not have tried to run the checkpoint. Pray for W and Our Troops Pray for W and Our Freedom Fighting Troops

I quite agree. Anyone who has sat/whatever in the dark with a loaded weapon during wartime knows what to do when threatened by a potential assailant. I hope that all officers in the chain of command--up to W, himself--point out that our boys acted just the way they were trained from guard duty during basic training all the way up to real shooting war. It's one of those unfortunate facts of 21st century life that way too few MSM "journalists" have ever served a day in uniform.

188 posted on 03/05/2005 9:48:20 PM PST by CDB
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To: hleewilder

By equating those stories you're still negating the fact that one was in a war zone and one was not. You are also implying that the troops at the checkpoint are covering up, but I've seen zero evidence to support your opinion. The account put forth by the troops is entirely consistent with the way you expect them to handle the situation. The account by the Italian journalist has been inconsistent and stretches credibility to the breaking point. That is not to say that it wasn't how she perceived it, but perceptions and reality are 2 different things.


189 posted on 03/05/2005 9:56:13 PM PST by Kirkwood
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To: JCEccles
RE: "It would be unwise and foolish for the president to say anything about Pantano"

Good point that others have made.

I tend to go with those who say that as far as the President of the United States of America and the Commander in Chief goes there is no such thing "undue command influence."

RE: "Marine JAGs and commanders are generally first-rate in getting to the right decision."

Another good point.

I'm old. I ask myself, what would FDR have done?

Those even older and Marine vets of the Pacific are dumbfounded. What if they had been monitored closely? I've heard more than one ask.

War has changed? It still comes down to the dead and the living, the losers and the winners and those who are asked to serve.

Who would complain if the President acted? The very same ones (enemies within) who make an "issue" of everything. They'll raise hell if he's not found guilty.

190 posted on 03/05/2005 9:59:46 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (MSM Fraudcasters are skid marks on journalism's clean shorts.)
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To: Lessismore

The FOG of WAR!!! Remember it was the TERRORISTS that kidnapped her and if not for that this would not have happened. Sadly this plays into the hands of the enemy!! Her life and that of her brave rescuers are no MORE of LESS important than that of those checkpoint soldiers.


191 posted on 03/05/2005 10:02:42 PM PST by PISANO (We will not tire......We will not falter.......We will NOT FAIL!!! .........GW Bush [Oct 2001])
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham
The problem is, the case is at the center of a fish bowl. Our most dedicated enemies are watching whether they be in Paris or Rome, Baghdad, or Washington DC. They will not be satisfied with a decision to not prosecute and all holy hades will break lose when such a decision is made.

The Marine convening authority is not likely to flinch to make the decision, but is quite confident to allow a Marine JAG to vet the evidence beforehand. If that is where the case is headed (to not prosecute), there is nothing to be lost and a lot to be gained by showing that the evidence was taken and thoroughly examined but, in the opinion of a highly-respected legal professional (and they will have their best IO on the case, believe me) there was insufficient evidence to justify court-martial.

The standard of proof for preferring charges and sending them to an Article 32 is slight. A case can end at the Article 32 level, and many do. That's what my gut tells me will happen here.

192 posted on 03/05/2005 10:03:57 PM PST by JCEccles (If Jimmy Carter were a country, he'd be Canada.)
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To: Lessismore
There MUST be a full scale investigation
of everyone involved in paying "between £4 million and £5 million" ransom to terrorists.
They should be shot. Everything else is a minor side issue.
193 posted on 03/05/2005 10:04:45 PM PST by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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To: Kirkwood

I never said anything like that. I said that POLITICALLY The Italian Prime Minister is under pressure to get a pound of flesh for this incident more for something that happened in 1999.

This present situation is totally different. These guys today IN 2005 were totally right. Those guys in 1999 were wrong.

The point is, POLITICALLY it doesn't matter from an Italian perspective. In their view, two US Air Force Officers got away with MURDER in 1999, and the US military justice system let them off.

Is that true? I'll leave that to the experts, the point is, P0LITICALLY that's what the ITALIANS are on about.

Again, for the record I THINK OUR GUYS WERE PERFECTLY JUSTIFIED IN WHAT THEY WERE DOING AT THE CHECKPOINT. But don't hold your breath that the Italian public is going to buy any kind of investigation by the US unless SOMEBODY'S A$$ IS NAILED TO THE WALL, because again, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY FAITH IN OUR PROSECUTING ANY OF OUR OWN PEOPLE.

Okay?


194 posted on 03/05/2005 10:11:13 PM PST by hleewilder
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To: JCEccles

Thanks again for your POV. Certainly, all reasonably levied charges must be fully investigated, to the satisfaction of the US military command and other relevant parties. But, barring some significant disclosure, I sure hope that this soldier's good name will be cleared in the end.


195 posted on 03/05/2005 10:26:19 PM PST by Mad_Tom_Rackham (This just in from CBS: "There is no bias at CBS")
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To: A. Pole; Atlantic Bridge
The Poles i.E., who fought the German Wehrmacht for 6 years, lost about 20% of their inhabitans in that time.

Serbs and Greeks also were very brave

It seems that bravery is a quality that must be periodically nourished in a nation. Too long a period of peace and comfort brings about the atrophy of such a quality.

Not too many decades before World War II, the Greeks and the Serbs were successfully fighting the Turks for their freedom.

After World War One, the Poles were successfully fighting the Soviets for their freedom.

By contrast, the Norwegians, the dreaded Norsemen of ages past, rolled over without much of a fight in World War II.

I recently read an account of the capture the Oslo airfield during the German invasion of Norway that illustrated German bravery and Norwegian decadence at the time.

It may be Politically Incorrect to praise a German World War II operation but this operation showed great courage on the German side and a definite lack of backbone on the Norwegian side.

The German planned to capture the Oslo airfield by a parachute drop of 200 paratroopers. Once the Oslo airfield was captured, Junker 52 transport aircraft would then land with airborne infantry. The troops would them march into Oslo.

As in all the best laid plans of mice and men, something went astray. The flight of paratroopers ran into pea soup fog and was forced to abort their mission.

The commander of the paratroopers radioed that their mission was aborted and the commanding General ordered the entire operation be aborted. However, the commander of the follow up airborne infantry, a Capt. Wagner, believed that the radio traffic was an enemy ruse and ordered the airborne infantry to proceed with the mission.

Meanwhile, a flight of eight Messerschmidt 110 two-seaters commanded by a Lt. Hansen had been tasked with strafing the Oslo airfield. After fighting off a flight of Norwegian Gladiator fighters, with the loss of three aircraft, the Me 110's watched the Junker 52's with airborne infantry come in and attempt to land before the Oslo airfield had been secured by any German paratroopers.

The first Junker 52 that attempted a landing, Capt. Wagner's aircraft, was riddled by Norwegian gunners and Wagner was killed. The Junker 52 performed a "touch and go" and was airborne again.

Lt. Hansen, his Me 110 flight running low on fuel, then made a decision before any more defenseless Junker 52's filled with airborne infantry attempted to land. He decided that his Me 110 fighter crews had to capture the Norwegian airfield themselves.

Each Me 110 made a fast crash-landing and the Me 110 crews took their machine guns off the aircraft to act as infantry.

The Norwegian gunners fled and the remaining Junker 52's landed without opposition.

The German airborne infantry later marched on Oslo and secured the Norwegian capital.

As I said at the start, the spirit of national courage requires periodic nourishment in a nation. The current generation of Continental Europe, including Germany, would most likely act as the Norwegians did on that day in April of 1940.

196 posted on 03/05/2005 10:31:07 PM PST by Polybius
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To: hleewilder
I live several weeks a year in Italy while on business and I think you are way too worked up about what the Italians think. This is very typical of the Italians to get all bent out of shape about some political issue and then nothing comes of it. They are good at protesting and having planned strikes and wringing their hands. It is a socialist country filled with socialist protester. When they aren't protesting against the US, they are protesting against their own government or complaining about Germans or their neighbor across the street. This might backfire on them if they push it too far. Lots of suspicious activity surrounding this so-called hostage that might not sit so well with us.
197 posted on 03/05/2005 10:42:56 PM PST by Kirkwood
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To: A. Pole; Poohbah; dighton
"Maybe these were not high powered rifle bullets?"

SPITBALLS?!
John Kerry, is that you?

198 posted on 03/05/2005 10:45:10 PM PST by BlueLancer (Der Elite Møøsënspåånkængrüppen ØberKømmändø (EMØØK))
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To: montag813
It makes my heart sink that such a brave man should die protecting someone so unworthy of his sacrifice. My prayers go out for the family of this fine man. But my most bitter enmity and hopes for a slow and painful recovery go out to this scum of the earth Sgrena, who wrote thousands of words in praise of those who have the blood of our soldiers--and Italian soldiers too--on their hands. The Italian people should be ashamed of themselves for honoring her in any way. She is a piece of excrement.

So well stated, it deserves repeating. The US has absolutely nothing to apologize for. She is an EVIL person and should have died. Screw the Italians if they can't see that our brave Warriors were only being prudent. The left is one with SATAN. There no nothing redeeming about the left. I pray they all burn in Hell.

199 posted on 03/05/2005 10:56:21 PM PST by liberty2004
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To: CaptainAwesome2
What coalition? We are wasting money and

Coalitions are so sissy sounding and appeals to the Socialist left. We need a Warrior Class to rise up and tell the world, we will go it alone and we surely don't need another other damn nation to help us. If they want to help us, fine, but we should make it clear we don't need them. It only makes us look weak. Throughout history, our great Warriors died because politicians were too weak or slow to use overpowering force.

200 posted on 03/05/2005 11:00:37 PM PST by liberty2004
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