Congressman Charles Rangel: Equal Taxation 'Not Fair'

CNS News ^ | 3-4-2005 | Jeff Johnson

[groanup]

You don't want the rich to get richer? Why not?

http://www.freedomkeys.com/gap.htm

[kennyo]

Rangel is as smooth as they come.Watch his television appearances.His attitude is "Screw you,I got mine!"He views politics as a game.His team is now on the side-line.He smiles as he goes through the litany of complaints against the Republican agenda.He knows that whether or not his precious "poor" get anything,his salary and retirement are in the bag.I think that any congressman or senator that feels so strongly about "equality" should give up their salaries and pensions as a a measure of their bona fides.Otherwise,it's the same old tired saw.Don't tax you,don't tax me,tax that fella behind the tree.

[Bigun]

My friend the NRST as currently proposed in HR25/S25 is exactly a tax on accumulated wealth when such wealth is spent!

Have a good look around http://www.Fairtax.org and then get back to me.

[Age of Reason]

Exactly how is a consumption tax unfair? Don't the wealthy, by definition, consume more?

Not in proportion to how much money they have.

Poor people have to spend all their money just so survive.

Rich people don't spend all their money.

If they did, they would have no money and wouldn't be rich.

Instead they take the money they don't need to survive, and invest it in ways to make more money without working for it.

[squirt-gun]

Re # 60...Nobody has brought up a VAT here, so let's set that aside. Exactly how is a consumption tax unfair? Don't the wealthy, by definition, consume more?

Oh contrar!!!

Last weeks WSJ covered the possibilities of a VAT in detail.

As to your second belief:...

A consumption tax on "Joe Small" with 98% of income taxed versus Mr. Kennedy...with .000001% of income taxed and the vast bulk turned around untaxed for furthur investment gain is hardly fair. This by the way was also discussed in last week's WSJ

[squirt-gun]

Re # 63...

The NRST seem to me a bad idea

[Age of Reason]

With the plan I support he would pay tax on brokerage fees but not on the instruments themselves

And I suppose your plan will just charge a tax on the salesman's commision, and not on the price of the suit or sofa or TV?

[upchuck]

Many truly wealthy people pay absoluitely no tax now....Thats what I call unfair.

I have seen this written many times. Can you site, via a trustworthy link, one truly wealthy person who pays no tax? I'm not being argumentative, I'm hoping you can.

[Bigun]

Instead they take the money they don't need to survive, and invest it in ways to make more money without working for it.

You left out a KEY part of the scenario! IMHO it should read as follows:

Instead they take the money they don't need to survive, and invest it in ways to make more money without working for it and in the process, create ENDLESS opportunities for those not yet wealthy to begin the process of getting there.

[Age of Reason]

and in the process, create ENDLESS opportunities for those not yet wealthy to begin the process of getting there.

LOL

What wud de po slaves do wif no massa an' no plantashun?

[kennyo]

A FLAT income tax is the ONLY way to go.

There are two problems,as I see it,with the current system.One of course is confiscatory rates,which I consider to be much over ten percent.Even that sounds high.And a flat tax may remedy that.But the other problem with any type of income tax,is that you have to document your income.The issue of privacy from the federal government is not addressed by a flat tax.

If I had my way,we'd divide the national budget by the number of voters.The resulting number would be the poll tax.Obviously,the fewer voters we had,the more each would have to pay.But those voters would be VERY sensitive about who they elected,especially on the spending issues.As the free-spenders were sent to the nether regions,more of the population would be able to vote.A balance would be achieved,sometimes going one way,and sometimes the other.But the out-of-control situation we have today would be obviated.People who don't pay taxes shouldn't be able to vote.No representation without taxation!

[DSH]

Poor people have to spend all their money just so survive.

Rich people don't spend all their money.

If they did, they would have no money and wouldn't be rich.

Instead they take the money they don't need to survive, and invest it in ways to make more money without working for it.

I take it that you consider such a situation "unfair." Would you please explain why?

[Bigun]

And I suppose your plan will just charge a tax on the salesman's commision, and not on the price of the suit or sofa or TV?

Nope! Just the opposite in fact! NO tax on the salesmans commission but the suits, sofas, and TVs ARE taxed IF they are new and previously untaxed and NOT purchased by legitimate businesses for resale!

Tax it ONCE but ONLY once is the key!

[Go Gordon]

Why not have a wealth tax where a single tax rate for everyone would be applied against one's entire wealth? ... Many truly wealthy people pay absoluitely no tax now....Thats what I call unfair.

Dude, you'd create a disaster with that taxing wealth thinking. You are right though, "Wealthy" people pay smart people alot of money to shelter themselves under the current tax system. Actually, the best way to make "wealthy" people pay taxes is to go to a consumption tax, if thats your goal. What it does for all people, is have control over their own money. No taxes on income, just when you spend money.

[Bigun]

What wud de po slaves do wif no massa an' no plantashun?

And I suppose that, in your world, those of us struggling under a system which allows an outside agency, in this case the government, to lay, and enforce, an APRIORI claim against whatever portion of the fruits of ones labor it wishes are NOT slaves!

[ancient_geezer]

Can you post that graph of effective Fair Tax rates by spending level?

Glad to oblige:

Under the Fair Tax Act with its FCA, a family of four, for an example, could spend $24,980 per year free of tax because they will have received over the course of the year a demogrant totaling $5,745. $5,745 is the amount of sales tax paid on $24,980 in expenditures. That family spending double the "poverty level" or $49,960per year will effectively pay tax on only half of their spending and, therefore, have an effective tax rate of 11 ½ percent or half the FairTax rate.

To illustrate examine the tax burden that a family of four will have at various annual expenditure levels as compared to that same family under the current tax law, (NRST Expenditure = income; 2004 individual income tax on wages plus FICA/MC taxes, standard deduction, personal exemptions,child credits, and EITC):

 

H.R.25 "The FairTax Act

Not only does every family receive a FCA based on family size, not income, but they will also receive 100% of their paycheck.

[Bigun]

Care to tell me exactly WHY you say that? Have you REALLY looked at it?

[teenyelliott]

Wid out de massa, what wud us po slaves do?

Oh my god, I do hope you are kidding.

[kennyo]

A moron like Orin Hatch will continue to call Kennedy "My good friend.

I'm reminded of a George Carlin line,about the senate."They have their own code in the senate"said he."When you hear one of them saying 'my esteemed colleague',what he means is 'that c*** s***** over there' ".Always with the foul language,he

On the other hand,civility is neccessary in politics.Although I have problems with Hatch,his decorum is not one of them.I doubt they're friends at all.Sean Hannity has jumped into that BS about "good friends" with both feet,I'm tired of hearing it.

[To Hell With Poverty]

Working for a wage is hardly slavery, dude. It's part of what's called self-determination, and it is the bane of liberals' existence.

Maybe we're in agreement if by "massa", you mean Big Government welfare and subsidies, and by "slaves" you mean the folks who depend on those instead of their own drive and ingenuity....