Neighbor, other man charged in slaying of Jersey City family

PhillyBurbs ^

[Selkie]

By WAYNE PARRY The Associated Press

JERSEY CITY, N.J. - The upstairs neighbor of an Egyptian Christian family found slain in their home in January was charged Friday, along with another man, in the murders.

Edward McDonald, 25, who rented a second-floor apartment above Hossam Armanious and his family, pleaded not guilty to four counts of felony murder. Hamilton Sanchez, 30, faces the same charges and also pleaded not guilty.

Sanchez during a court hearing began crying as he stood before a judge, his hands cuffed behind his back.

"I didn't kill nobody. I didn't kill nobody, man. I didn't kill nobody, people," Sanchez said, as he was led from the courtroom. McDonald stared at the floor during the hearing.

Both men, who were on parole for different drug offenses, were ordered held on $10 million cash bail.

Authorities said Armanious, 47; his wife, Amal Garas, 37, and their children - Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8 - were slain three days before their bodies were found Jan. 14.

[justshutupandtakeit]

She would have no reason not to open her door to her tenant. While skepticism is warranted outright fantasies should be dropped.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Yeah but felons can't have a gun. There are laws against it.

[ariamne]

That doesn't surprise me one jot. I am an American, that is my "community", not some ethnic slice of a town or city. Maybe someday other communities will understand that this is the essence of being an American.

[Fred Nerks]

Quoting 'verses' from the koran or repeating any one of the thousands of hadith will not answer anything - without understanding the life of mohammad, without a knowledge of his motivation, the time and place of the 'revelations' he uttered, all are quite meaningless drivel - compared to the life of Jesus for example, of whose short 'career' we know much. Sorry to make this comparison, which I understand might be odious to some, contentious to others.
Utterances, wisdom, revelations, whatever you choose to call them, must be seen in the context of the life of the 'prophet' who made them. We are entitled to know the character, and the driving force behind the words.

As an example, let me use the loaves and fishes story from the New Testament. If it were known that Jesus was an entrepreneur who received a commission on the sale of loaves and fishes, our attitude toward his actions would be entirely different.

Mohammad was, as islam itself describes him, a businessman. That's gilding the lily, he is also referred to as a merchant, but above all else, he was an opportunist, a man who, in desperate straits, sat on the steps of a temple with a band of beggars and lived on alms until he and his beggar-friends were driven out. For this, he swore revenge, and years later, returned and 'converted' the city to his 'religion' by the sword.

His 'knowledge' of God he gained from the Hebrews, allah is a corruption of al-Uzzah, the planet Venus, a planetary god worshipped throughout the ME as The Queen of Heaven.

Arabs tribes were, as they still are, disunited. Mohammad united them into a fighting force, and the rest is history. There are two issues involved; One, without knowledge of the life of the man the arabs call a prophet, 'verses' can be quoted from the koran and interpreted to suit almost anything. The koran has no chronology. It is written down short verses first, long last. There's no when, no how, no why, no where...anywhere.
And secondly, as the 'living breathing voice of allah' who spoke directly into mohammad's ear, the contents of the koran are taken to literally mean whatever mohammad did must be emulated for all future time. His 'conversations' with allah makes mohammad 'sinless and divine' ... thus did allah approve of the murder of the 800 men who were decapitated and buried in a mass grave, the women and children taken captive; for allah told mohammad 'I HAVE GIVEN THEE THEIR WEALTH AS AN INHERITANCE'

Now, wouldn't you want a 'prophet' like that if you were a nomad arab? I know I would! Plunder and booty was their 'industry'. And still is.

Please, read the biography. You can, muslims aren't allowed to. And btw, the entire book is filled, page after page, with source-notes. From ancient arabic.

[RS]

"That doesn't surprise me one jot. I am an American, that is my "community", not some ethnic slice of a town or city."

Except for those Americans who happen to be muslim ...

[SauronOfMordor]

From my copy of the Koran:
 

Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day ... until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low
            Surah IX:29

O ye who believe! Choose not for friends such of those who received the Scriptures before you
        Surah V:57

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush...
        Surah IX:5

And slay them wherever ye find them ... Such is the reward of disbelievers.
        Surah II:191
 

Sunnah Volume 4, Book 52, Number 53:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet said, "Nobody who dies and finds good from Allah (in the Hereafter) would wish to come back to this world even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it, except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would like to come back to the world and get killed again (in Allah's Cause)."

Sunnah Volume 4, Book 52, Number 63:

Narrated Al-Bara:

A man whose face was covered with an iron mask (i.e. clad in armor) came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace Islam first? "The Prophet said, "Embrace Islam first and then fight." So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Apostle said, A Little work, but a great reward. "(He did very little (after embracing Islam), but he will be rewarded in abundance)."

The Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

The Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The (Final) Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 196:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 256:

Narrated As-Sab bin Jaththama:

The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." I also heard the Prophet saying, "The institution of Hima [sanctuary; inviolate zone] is invalid except for Allah and His Apostle."

[ translation: the women and children of infidels are acceptable "collateral damage". A Muslim has no need to avoid killing them while attacking infidels (as the Palestinian suicide bombers demonstrate repeatedly) ]

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 265:

Narrated Al-Bara bin Azib:

Allah's Apostle sent a group of the Ansar to Abu Rafi. Abdullah bin Atik entered his house at night and killed him while he was sleeping.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 268:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle called,: "War is deceit".

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 271:

Narrated Jabir:

The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Ashraf (i.e. a Jew)." Muhammad bin Maslama replied, "Do you like me to kill him?" The Prophet replied in the affirmative. Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say what I like." The Prophet replied, "I do (i.e. allow you)." [ie, it’s OK to use lies and deception to get close to an enemy you want to kill]

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 280:

Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri:

When the tribe of Bani Quraiza was ready to accept Sad's judgment, Allah's Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah's Apostle said (to the Ansar), "Stand up for your leader." Then Sad came and sat beside Allah's Apostle who said to him. "These people are ready to accept your judgment." Sad said, "I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners." The Prophet then remarked, "O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 283:

Narrated Abu Juhaifa:

I asked Ali, "Do you have the knowledge of any Divine Inspiration besides what is in Allah's Book?" 'Ali replied, "No, by Him Who splits the grain of corn and creates the soul. I don't think we have such knowledge, but we have the ability of understanding which Allah may endow a person with, so that he may understand the Qur'an, and we have what is written in this paper as well." I asked, "What is written in this paper?" He replied, "(The regulations of) blood-money, the freeing of captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel."

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 829:

Narrated Al-Mughira:

Sa'd bin Ubada said, "If I found a man with my wife, I would kill him with the sharp side of my sword." When the Prophet heard that he said, "Do you wonder at Sa'd's sense of ghira (self-respect)? Verily, I have more sense of ghira than Sa'd, and Allah has more sense of ghira than I."

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

Narrated 'Ikrima:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:

Narrated Abu Burda:

Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"

Islam is to be imposed by force.

* Mohammed said, "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, and whoever says, " None has the right to be worshipped but Allah , his life and property will be saved by me." (otherwise it will not). Vol. 4:196

Apostasy is punishable by death.

* Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Vol. 9:57

Ethnic cleansing is practiced.

* Mohammed said to the Jews, "You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle (Mohammed) and I want to expel you from this land (The Arabian Peninsula), so, if anyone owns property, he is permitted to sell it." Vol. 4:392

* Mohammed's last words at his deathbed were: "Turn the pagans (non-Muslims) out of the Arabian Peninsula." Vol. 5:716

Islamic lying:

What is Taqiyah?

He who disbelieves in Allah after his belief in Him, (is the liar) except he who is compelled while his heart remains steadfast with the faith (has nothing worry). But who opens his breast for infidelity; on these is wrath of Allah, and for them is a great torment.
--Qur’an, Surah 16 (an‑Nahl), verse 100

This verse of the Qur’an refers to the incident when 'Ammar bin Yasir (May Allah be pleased with both) had to utter some words against Islam to save himself from the Quraishite infidels.

The Qur'an clearly allows hiding one 's true faith when one is in danger of one's life. This rule is called taqiyah.

Question 1: What is the meaning of "Taqiyah"?
Answer: Its literal meaning is to safeguard; to defend; to fear; piety (because it saves one from the displeasure of Allah).

Question 2: What is its significance in Islamic termi­nology?
Answer: In Islamic terminology it means "to save life, honour. or property (either one's own or of other be­lievers) by hiding one's belief or religion".

I imagine the rule would apply in a lesser way to a Muslim who hides his jihad sympathies.

http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/shia_education/shia/12.htm

APPENDIX I TAQIYAH Or DISSIMULATION

`Allamah Tabataba'i

One of the most misunderstood aspects of Shi'ism is the practice of dissimulation or taqiyah. With the. wider meaning of taqiyah. "to avoid or shun any kind of danger," we are not concerned here. Rather, our aim is to discuss that kind of taqiyah in which a man hides his religion or certain of his religious practices in situations that would cause definite or probable danger as a result of the actions of those who are opposed to his religion or particular religious practices.

Among followers of the different schools of Islam, Shi'ites are well known for their practice of taqiyah. In case of danger they dissimulate their religion and hide their particular religious and ritual practices from their opponents.

The sources upon which the Shi'ites base themselves in this question include the following verse of the Holy Quran: "Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them [tattaqu minhum. from the same root as taqiyah], taking (as it were) security [tuqatan. again from the same root as taqiyah]. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying" (III, 28). As is clear from this sacred verse, God, the,Most Exalted, forbids with the utmost emphasis wilayah (meaning in this case friend- ship and amity to the extent that it affects one's life) with un- believers and orders man to be wary and have fear in such a situation.

In another place He says, "Whoso disbelieveth in Allah after his belief-save him who is forced thereto and whose heart is still content with Faith-but whoso findeth ease in disbelief: On them is wrath from Allah. Theirs will be an awful doom" (Quran, XVI, 106). As mentioned in both Sunni and Shi'ite sources this verse was revealed concerning `Ammar ibn Yasir. After the migration (hijrah) of the Prophet the infidels of Mecca imprisoned some of the Muslims of that city and tortured them, forcing them to leave Islam and to return to their former religion of idolatry. Included in this group who were tortured were Ammar and his father and mother. Ammar's parents refused to turn away from Islam and died under torture. But Ammar. in order to escape torture and death, outwardly left Islam and accepted idol worship, thereby escaping from danger. Having become free, he left Mecca secretly for Medina. In Medina he went before the Holy Prophet-upon whom be blessings and peace--and in a state of penitence and distress concerning what he had done asked the Prophet if by acting as he did he had fallen outside the sacred precinct of religion. The Prophet said that his duty was what he had accomplished. The above verse was then revealed.

The two verses cited above were revealed concerning particular cases but their meaning is such that they embrace all situations in which the outward expression of doctrinal belief and religious practice might bring about a dangerous situation. Besides these verses, there exist many traditions from the members of the Household of the Prophet ordering taqiyah when there is fear of danger.

Some have criticized Shi'ism by saying that to employ the practice of taqiyah in religion is opposed to the virtues of courage and bravery. The least amount of thought about this accusation will bring to light its invalidity, for taqiyah must be practiced in a situation where man faces a danger which he cannot resist and against which he cannot fight. Resistance to such a danger and failure to practice taqiyah in such circumstances shows rashness and foolhardiness. not courage and bravery. The qualities of courage and bravery can be applied only when there is at least the possibility of success in man's efforts. But before a definite or probable danger against which there is no possibility of victory throwing oneself before a cannon that is being fired or lying down on the tracks before an onrushing train-any action of this kind is nothing but a form of madness contrary to logic and common sense. Therefore, we can summarize by saying that taqiyah must be practiced only when there is a definite danger which cannot be avoided and against which there is no hope of a successful strug gle and victory.

The exact extent of danger which would make permissible the practice of taqiyah has been debated among different mujtahids of Shi'ism. In our view, the practice of taqiyah is permitted if there is definite danger facing one's own life or the life of one's family, or the possibility of the loss of the honor and virtue of one's wife or of other female members of the family,or the danger of the loss of one's material belongings to such an extent as to cause complete destitution and prevent a man from being able to continue to support himself and his family. In any case, prudence and the avoidance of definite or probable danger which cannot be averted is a general law of logic accepted by all people and applied by men in all the different phases of their lives.

[RS]

"Quoting 'verses' from the koran or repeating any one of the thousands of hadith will not answer anything ..."

Hi Fred ... that's why I didn't ask you - we've gone around it a few times, but I still don't understand why you persist on saying making statements like "Their numerous threats based upon the koranic requirement that all infidels should die or don't deserve to live..." when you don't ever supply references to prove YOUR statement.

If you were to write it instead as -
" Dr. Harvey Finagle says "Their numerous threats based upon the koranic requirement...."
-it would be easy to understand that it may or may not be YOUR opinion on the matter, and you may not be asked to support the statement.

[Fred Nerks]

LOL! Were you the one who said he'd rather watch cartoons than read a book...were you the Freeper to whom I wrote, I know you would rather pick up a snake than do a little research? If not, I take it back but...that's who you sound like.

I'm not throwing muslims all in the same basket, I'm just trying to provide background. Muslims are people who are victims of islam just as much as we are.The best thing you can do for a muslim is tell him/her the truth about mohammad. Who and what he really was. And you can't do that without information. Without an honest history of the conniving creature he was, you get this rubbish:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/GoPostal/commentdetail.asp?ID=12226&commentID=260388

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12226

[bvw]

Any community has a responsibilty to distance itself from felons and the lovers of violence, from the frauds and trappers of men. Any community has a duty to a appropriate level of remorse for malevolent actions committed by its members -- especially when those members act in the cloak of the community or its ethos. And beyond any doubt -- when those evil actions are fostered and encouraged by the community's teachings and habits -- the normative or variants thereof.

Every decent community -- nation, club, congregation, town, district, religion -- does so.

When you or anyone else puts themselves beyond that duty -- it is Justice, Din, itself -- they by that act alone act allow evil dominance in themselves and become a threat to the rest of us.

You and yours have not so admitted remorse, nor sought to correct -- of your own. You stand by and watch blood be shed, and speak not.

When my brother turns I go and seek to turn him back.

You have no brothers. You, RS -- you and any like you are worse than dogs -- dogs at least have brothers of the litter.

[TexasCowboy]

"The average islamic does not consider the fanatics their "fellows" just as the average Catholic does not consider pedophilic priests as one of their own."

You can actually equate a few isolated cases of pedophila, (which by the way, the Church openly investigates now, and when have we seen the Muslim cult investigate any of their wrong doings?) to the slaughter of 3000 people on 9-11, the killing of 292 people at our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the killing of 17 American sailors aboard the USS Cole, the slaughter of 241 Marines in Lebanon, etc, etc?

Does the whole Muslim community owe the world, and especially America and Israel, an apology?

YOU DAMN RIGHT!!

[Fred Nerks]

How can you ask a muslim to apologise for anything that muslim terrorists carry out in accordance to the emulation of the divine and sinless mohammad? No islamic fanatic acts without a fatwa, a religious decree issued by a cleric, whose function it is to ascertain that the act of terrorism to be committed is just as mohammad himself would have carried it out...I haven't said that very well, I stumble over the idiocy of it...but it's evident to me, (if I am allowed to have an opinion, that is,) for a muslim to say sorry he/she would be required to DENY MOHAMMAD IS SINLESS AND DIVINE and that's apostasy!

[RS]

Thanks - I'm sure that you know the haddih is not part of the koran and was writen a few hundred years later.

but as far as your koran quotes -



"until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low"

- I don't see killing mentioned in this verse



"Choose not for friends such ..."

- No killing here



"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters..."

- Ah, killing, but the previous verse-

"[9:4] If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous.

-explains how this happens AFTER a peace treaty has expired.




"And slay them wherever ye find them ..."

- killing again, but again the verse before

[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors."

- and the complete verse you cut your quote from

[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.

http://www.submission.org/


Re: Taqiyah ( not to be confused with Tanqueray:-)


"I imagine the rule would apply in a lesser way to a Muslim who hides his jihad sympathies."

But what you IMAGINE might be just what you would LIKE to believe -

the verse is quite simple to understand - You can deny your faith when in fear of your life ( didn't one of the apostles get forgiven for doing just that ? )

[RS]

"You have no brothers. You, RS -- you and any like you are worse than dogs -- dogs at least have brothers of the litter."

You know nothing of me, and you are blissfully ignorant also of how foolish you are to those who do know me.

It does give a perfect example of how you can spew out venon based on wrong perceptions.

[bvw]

Perception based on the persona you've taken in your posts. The club of fools most times seems like a brotherhood. Until things get tough, that is. I know what real brotherhood is. Your attitude as posted so far ain't.

[Fred Nerks]

Your arguments are not with us. Your arguments are with the clerics of islam who issue the decrees, the fatwa's; based upon a lifetime of study of the koran and hadith.
Go, tell them they are wrong. Wrong to preach jihad as a terror tactic from the mosque. Tell the clerics that the abrogated verses are the true islam...and what comes later is the root of all the evil in islam.
You would be doing us all a great service, muslims included.

[RS]

"... a few isolated cases of pedophila, (which by the way, the Church openly investigates now,..."

what'sa matter ? did I touch a nerve ?


Kill all the bad guys, but don't expect to exact a tribute from the innocent.

A " sorry about that" from those who are not responsible is foolish, and expecting one from those who are is idiocy.

[Fred Nerks]

Afterthought: To do that, of course you would need to know the sequence. When were the 'peaceful' verses written, what was their purpose, when did the tone change, when and how did mohammad become more powerful, thus more dangerous. Without the history of the man, without understanding his life, without biographical evidence, well, you know what I'm going to say, don't you?
You're wasting your time. And mine.

[RS]

"Your arguments are with the clerics of islam who issue the decrees, the fatwa's; based upon a lifetime of study of the koran and hadith."

Sorry, but you have it reversed - YOUR selection of quotes and interpretations are from those, mine are from some simple web research into what the hundreds of millions of muslims who are NOT attacking us might be believing.

YOU posted the articles about those who want to replace their imans, remember ?

[RS]

"When were the 'peaceful' verses written,...."

The haddith (sp?) were writen about 200 years later - which is why I dismiss them as simply interpretations writen by others with their own agenda.

[Fred Nerks]

I provided no 'selection of quotes and interpretations' - and yes, I am hopeful that the removal of the radical cleric in Sydney will make a difference to what is preached in the mosque. It is an encouraging sign, but last I heard, we was still there, fighting to hang on. Getting rid of a cleric isn't that easy, as the community is finding out. I'm full of praise that they are trying. Life's getting tough for them, Hilali is an extremist, a supporter of Hezbollah and an embarrassment because he has a huge mouth, 'lets the cat out of the bag' so to speak. The muslim community would prefer (my opinion again) that what is said in the mosque remains secret. Hilali therefore isn't so much a terrorism advocate whose views the congregation does not share, he's just open and honest in public about islam's aims, and he can't resist a microphone opportunity.
If some of what I write is contradictory, and I agree, often it is, I suggest you look within islam itself for the reasons. This is a 'religion' based upon the idea that it's best of the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing...and we can all thank the cunning, conniving mohammad for that.