50% OF RUSSIANS POSITIVELY ASSESSES STALIN'S ROLE IN RUSSIA'S LIFE

Novosti ^ | 2005-03-04

[G Larry]

It IS a big deal when conservative, Christian, educated, former Soviet citizens are able to excuse Stalin with sincerity.
It illustrates the power of propaganda and misinformation.
Its the reason the liberals in this country continue to thrive, in spite of the cause and effect facts associated w their policies.

[Grzegorz 246]

"The figure that most experts give for the Jews, gypsies,
and others who were exterminated in the camps is about
6 million."

Yes, but those 6 million are only the people, who were killed in death camps. Millions of other were sent to slave camps or had to work as slaves in German factories - 12h a day for a half loaf of bread - many of them died, they were overworked, this was also a kind of extermination. Those people + those executed by SS + 6 million = about 11 million of people, who it can be said that were killed directly by Hitler. Millions of people died in result of "total war" started by Hitler - in the bombed cities, in burnt Russian villages etc. Many people died because of hunger and diseases - in many occupied countries, especially in the Eastern Europe this was result of Nazi policy - limits of food and medicine... It gives together about 20 million people and it doesn't include soldiers, who died in fight or German civilians, who in some way died because Hitler started the war.

"We're ultimately dealing with vast numbers and how to interpret them."

Yes, I agree with you, this is especially hard in a case of Stalin and Soviets in general.

[T.L.Sink]

I reiterate what I said before - you can take any of
these phenomena and go from proximate causes to secondary
and extrapolate forever. How many in the trenches, e.g.,
died from contaminated food rations that can be blamed
on Hitler for starting the war? After all, were it not
for him they wouldn't have been in the trenches. I'm
being absurd to make a point. I think you and I could
have a statistical dialogue forever but we're both
making the same essential point.

[Cacique]

L8R

[free_european]

Not so sure about that, if Hitler hadnt diverted troops north to Leningrad and thus blunted the advance on Moscow it mightve been all over in '41.

[Zhangliqun]

History says otherwise. Hitler betrayed Stalin and looked to Russia as Reich expansion area. Stalin stopped him. It took while for the inertia to develop, but it did at Stalin's hand. To deny it is to deny historical realities.

Neither Hitler nor Stalin had any illusions about any sort of long-lasting peace treaty with each other. The Non-Aggression Pact was just a way for both of them to buy time, consolidate their conquests (half of Poland for each) and look for more (Finland for the USSR, just about everywhere else for Germany). There was no "betrayal" -- Nazism and Communism, as alike as they are in practice, are ideological foes and both knew war was inevitable, Stalin was just surprised that it came sooner than he thought it would. The current thread was to discuss the Russian view. American views to the contrary are not really gerane to the thread.

Then this thread should not exist because there aren't a whole lot of Russians in here.

[Killborn]

No matter how evil, illogical, or detrimental an idea is, you can always find at least 1000 adherents to it. No surprise we still have Nazis and KKK goons running around.