[neverdem]

"We were sacrificed for politics, and it's not just me who feels this way - lots of comrades do, and we communicate our thoughts via the Internet," said Xu Ke, a 40-year-old former infantryman who recently self-published a book, "The Last War," about the conflict.

I wonder how many Vietnam Veterans in this country feel they had been forced to serve in order for LBJ to get his Great Society programs passed.

"Presidential historian Michael Beschloss' second volume on the LBJ tapes is called Reaching for Glory: The Secret Lyndon Johnson Tapes, 1964-1965. Beschloss talks about the tapes and we hear excerpts -- including recordings of conversations about Vietnam and the Civil Rights movement."

[marty60]

Be careful on this one.. This looks at first blush as another attempt to demoralize the Viet Nam Vets. They are constantly attacked. And plenty of lefties are really mad at their part in skerry's loss.

[redgolum]

Never knew that Chian fought a border war with China.

It seems the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[untenured]

I had completely forgotten about this war.

Long Chaogang, a reticent 42-year-old infantryman...

Xu Ke, a 40-year-old former infantryman

If this war was fought in 1979 these men were perhaps just 16 and 14.

[sinanju]

I was a newly sentient teenager, breathlessly following the details, such as there were, in the International Herald Tribune, the newsweeklies, etc. This war, coming on the heels of Vietnam's invasion of the Khmer Rouge stimulated my interest in the region but as soon as it was over it dropped out of history. 20,000 chinese dead? Well, okay. I have no difficulty believing ol' Deng poured out their blood to cement his own position as capo de tutti capi and apparently, the chinese find that the easiest explanation as well. I wonder if any western historian has written anything in english. Official information is locked up tight but there are doubtless countless chinese veterans available to talk and I can only guess at the Vietnamese policy. I have never heard of any Great Patriotic War museum in Hanoi dedicated to this conflict (or should I say, this particular spasm in the milleniums-long hostilities between the two countries).

[Non-Sequitur]

bump

[neverdem]

From time to time, I’ll ping on noteworthy articles about politics, foreign and military affairs. FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

[Billthedrill]

Oh, yes. I was just out of theater when this little brouhaha went off. It was, near as any of us could figure at the time, a warning to Vietnam not to continue to march through Cambodia and so challenge China for area hegemony. The Vietnamese were also quite bitter at China for siphoning off Russian arms shipments intended for use in Vietnam. The People's Army acquired some mighty nice technology thereby, specifically in the area of anti-air weaponry.

I do not know whether the author is implying that U.S. veterans should emulate the Chinese example and forget about the whole thing, but if that's so, it'll never happen. The Vietnam war will truly end when real elections come to that country. It will happen, and I will open a very belated bottle of champagne when it does.

[crazyhorse691]

After the US totally abandoned the Vietnamese, it seemed the whole area became one large bloodbath. The Minh and Hmong refugees, Pol Pot, Cambodian refugees, and even the Vietnamese and Chinese duking it out along their border. Details keep appearing. Thanks for the article.

[donozark]

Author seems to miss key point of war...Soviets had signed a mutual defense pact with Vietnam. They got use of Cam Ranh Bay, one of the world's deepest/largest natural harbors. The Chinese, having fought numerous engagements with the Soviets along their northern border (Sino-Soviet War) were not eager to be flanked by the Soviets (on their southern border).

Chinese determined to find out if Soviets were a "Paper Polar Bear." They were. They failed to act on behalf of Vietnamese. This enraged the Viets. Hence, when Russia finally withdrew from Vietnam, late nineties, it was no great loss to the Viets. They were glad to see them go.

Most experts state approx. 25K KIA on both sides. After initial engagements, Viets hid in jungle/mountainous areas and attacked at a time of their own choosing. Sound familiar? The Chinese never penetrated Hanoi proper. Eventually pulled back north to China.

[lilylangtree]

China supported North Vietnam in the struggle with South Vietnam. When the US pulled out in '74(?) and the reunification of Vietnam began, China would not lose one of her satellites regardless of the cost. Plus, in China, humans are expendable because there are so many of them. Human lives are nothing to the Chinese. And, Vietnam belongs to China. China will not give up the resources of Vietnam.

[KC_Conspirator]

Sixteen years on, China has produced no "Rambo," much less a "Deer Hunter" or "Platoon."

THEY ARE AN EFFING $#@!*&^% COMMUNIST DICTATORSHIP YOU EFFING %#*@ MORONS AT THE NY TIMES!!!!!!!

Sheesh! They have no freedoms, no free speech, no freedom of expression. If they did, they would be killed or be imprisoned in an lao gai. But to the Times, this is lost on them because the US and communist China are just the same.

[scotiamor]

Another important point is China wanting to punish/stop the ethnic cleansing by the North Vietnamese of those South Vietnamese of chinese ancestry. Almost ALL of the boat people were ethnic chinese - Vietnam (Jane Fonda, John Kerry, Bill Clinton and the left's favorite country) killed over 500,000 boat people in an exodus of about 2 million. Because the ethnic Chinese were the ones with business skills, it set back Vietnamese economy by 25 years and even today, the Vietnamese basically function as a low skill labor pool for other Asian companies. Permanent slaves.

Similar to the price French Catholics paid when they slaughtered 100,000 French protestants (the Hugenots) in the St. Barthlemew's Day massacre. France missed the industrial revolution by 25 years or more, because the protestants were the skilled craftsmen. Those not killed fled to Germany.

[scotiamor]

Another point on LBJ tapes, distinguished from the Nixon tapes. LBJ personally started and stopped the tape machine - so he very often postured for posterity --- that is, the real LBJ was never revealed; LBJ protrayed himself as deeply concerned about humanity, racial minorities, etc. The bastard who held congress tight by the balls was never revealed.