Study: Native Americans Weren't The First

The Discovery Channel ^ | 9-6-2004 | Jennifer Viegas

[mamelukesabre]

then explain why java man looks chinese.

[blam]

"You are correct, but they aren't allowed to say "caucasian" and suggest whites were here before yellows or browns. The Ainu are not extinct, they've been "assimilated." Pics of old Ainu men reveal red beards, some had blue eyes. The Japanese don't like red beards. The Chinese were predated by whites in their own country (the ancestors of ancient Tocharians). They too were "assimilated.""

See the comment in post #21 by Freeper Coyoteman who is a published archaeologist. If there's any betting, I'll put my money with his.

My thoughts are that the Ainu/Jomon may be a proto-Caucasian/ proto-Mongoloid group...both racial lines splitting from that common source.

The Tocharians are an entirely different group of Caucasians who are most closely related to the ancient Celtics. I do believe the original homeland of the Caucasians was in what is present day China. The oldest paper ever found was in China and it had Tocharian-A (an Indo-European language) written on it. The Curse Of The Red-Headed Mummy

[followerofchrist]

This is so important because our history tells our kids that evil whites took over the Indians land, giving them a complex. In fact, the Indians did what we did, seized it from people that came before them. Or did we re-take Aztlan? Was Quetxycoatyl a white man?
This is also important because scientists have told us there were no other migrations but the Bering Land Bridge. I always wondered how Vikings sailed all over the globe before others were using the wheel, but are said to have not been capable of making it to North America in ancient times. No, not the people who invented modern agriculture! Society tells us blond people are stupid. Nah, they couldn't have sailed here and settled! Thank God scientists are now (somewhat) free to investigate other theories of settlement, such as the Atlantic Ice Bridge theory.

We've all enslaved, been enslaved, stole land, had land stolen from us, etc....So lets stop the racial bickering already. Now can I have my reservation land back?

[blam]

"then explain why java man looks chinese."

Doesn't look Chinese to me.

Java Man skull cap

[mamelukesabre]

The "artists rendition" of java man are essentially a chinesified neandertal...or at least that's what they used to look like last time I read about java man.

[Strategerist]

I realize there's this strong desire to have the original settlers of the Americas to turn out to be these blonde obviously European types (for the irony factor) but I think you're going to be disappointed. The article beginning this thread is talking about Austronesians/Melanesians, who are very obviously different from "Native Americans" but they're certainly not blonde Europeans. Same goes for Luza from Brazil.

Once you start going back well beyond 10,000 years you're really getting to a point where the races as we think of them didn't exist. There was an incredible amount of migration going in many directions; almost no one in the world today lives where their original ancestors lived.

[Verginius Rufus]

There was an ancient people in central Asia called Tocharians (Tocharoi, Tochari) in central Asia, apparently also mentioned in Chinese and Sanskrit texts, who were apparently Iranian. From a later period there are texts in two similar Indo-European languages (6th-8th centuries A.D.) in the same area which have been labeled Tocharian A and Tocharian B, but whether the speakers are connected to the Tocharians known earlier is disputed.

The curious feature of Tocharian A & B is that they are centum languages, otherwise found in Europe (like Latin, Greek, Celtic, and Germanic) whereas other eastern Indo-European languages are usually satem languages (such as Slavic, Iranian, Sanskrit). The difference between the two groups is that the centum languages consistently have a "k" sound (which becomes "h" in Germanic) where the satem languages have an "s" sound. (Centum is Latin for 100, satem is Avestan for 100.)

So it looks like the speakers of Tocharian A and B had migrated from much further west. They were a separate branch of the Indo-European family, not directly connected to the Celts.

[Bear_in_RoseBear]

The guy in the picture looks a lot like Patrick Stewart.

You got that right...

[Verginius Rufus]

The first ones to get here were not "Native Americans." But their children were.

[blam]

"So it looks like the speakers of Tocharian A and B had migrated from much further west. They were a separate branch of the Indo-European family, not directly connected to the Celts."

Professor Victor Mair, in his book, The Tarim Mummies, states that the Tocharian language, of all the Indo-European languages, is closest related to ancient Celtic.

Professor Elizabeth Barber, in her book, The Mummies Of Urumchi, makes another connection to the Celtics with the textiles found on/with the Tarim Mummies to the Celtic fabrics found at Hallstadt.

Both those are excellent books, BTW.

[Politicalmom]

My first thought too....

[blam]

"... but whether the speakers are connected to the Tocharians known earlier is disputed."

Yes. I think there was no evidence that directly connected the Tocharian languages to the earliest of the Caucasian mummies. BTW, the Mongoloid skeletons/mummies only began appearing in that region around 100-200BC.

[blam]

I will quote from Dr Victor Mair's book, The Tarim Mummies:

"Narain (an Indian Archaeologist) argues that once one accepts the equation Tocharian = Yuezhi, then one is forced to follow both the Chinese historical record sources and the geographical reference of their (the Caucasian mummies) first cited historical location (Gansu) to the conclusion that they have been there 'from times immemorial'. Narain infers that they had been there at least since the Qijia culture c. 2000BC and probably even earlier in the Yangshao culture of the Neolithic. This would render the Tocharians as virtually native to Gansu (and earlier than the putative spread of the Neolithic to Xinjiang) and Narain goes so far as to argue that the Indo-Europeans themselves originally dispersed from this area westwards."

[F16Fighter]

"The guy in the picture looks a lot like Patrick Stewart."

Lol, he does.

[itsahoot]

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Blam.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest -- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[ThanhPhero]

to be technical, any person born in America is a Native American.

That is correct, not "technically" correct but correct.

[SaltyJoe]

"Why don't we just call them the 'first immigrants'."

WOW, look at the size of his schnoz! Certainly not a mongoloid nose for a beak.

Well, since I'm related to this dude no matter where he came from, let's just call these guys "people".

[ABN 505]

I believe that they became extinct shortly after legalizing homosexual marrige.

[Lessismore]

Awesome map at http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/

Thanks for the link.

However, one thing the map makes clear is that the spread from Sundaland occurred well before the submersion of Sundaland as the climate moderated during several periods prior to the last glacial maximum.

My guess would be that the Caucasians came largely from the Middle East and maybe the Indus Valley and that the Mongoloids came from Southeast and East Asia.

However, both Northern Europeans of the German, Slavic and Fenno-Ugric linguistic groups, as well as the Han Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese are very cold-adapted. Their ancestors may have been trapped in refugia farther north in Eastern Europe/Central Asia or in the northern parts of East Asia.

Having been severely selected by climate, they then expanded out of these areas and became relatively successful emmigrants.