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To: ultima ratio
Where does it say that EVERYBODY AND HIS BROTHER are redeemed without their first COOPERATING in some way with grace?

You cant even read my replies. Both refer to Christ being the center of Salvation history, just like the Church has always taught, and furthermore I even quoted the passage where the Pope refuted your accusation with:

We wish to look towards him-because there is salvation in no one else but him, the Son of God- repeating what Peter said: "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life"

Your whole proposition is made on a priori logic. You have a conclusion that you read out of a SSPX pamphlet or tabloid, and by God you are not going to let the facts interfere.
400 posted on 02/24/2005 12:59:36 PM PST by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Dominick

No, your reply was in answer to my objection and as such it made no sense at all! When the Pope speaks of every single person being connected "in some way" to Christ--he's talking about everybody, not just Christians. But when you say he mentions the sacraments--the Eucharist and Baptism--you cite a passage that refers exclusively to Christians. This doesn't answer to the problem I posed at all. What I want to know is how are all men can be redeemed unless they cooperate in some way with grace, either through baptism or by some other means. The Pope doesn't bother with this. He just states all are redeemed.


402 posted on 02/24/2005 1:09:07 PM PST by ultima ratio
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To: Dominick

"You have a conclusion that you read out of a SSPX pamphlet or tabloid, and by God you are not going to let the facts interfere."

The only one reading out of pamphlets is yourself. I'm citing the Pope himself and asking appropriate questions. If what this pope says is true--who needs the Catholic Church? Let's all just follow Man--wherever he leads us. The heck with Baptism--we're born connected to Christ, according to this Pope.


403 posted on 02/24/2005 1:12:20 PM PST by ultima ratio
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